Updates, DA and Yum?

[DavidR]

I'm here to learn so bear with me. I am confused about how updates occur in RH9 and DA, and how this fits in with an update service like Yum.

1. What exactly is the scope of the DA update function? Does this update only a select group of applications that are associated with the operation of DA, or are other Linux components updated as well? Is there a list of which items are covered by this update?

2. Yum seems to be a cool service, providing an easy way to update, install or remove applications or services. However, when I issued #yum check-update <enter>, I got the following:

Gathering header information file(s) from server(s)
Server: Fedora Linux 1 - i386 - core
Server: Fedora Linux 1 - i386 - freshrpms
Server: Fedora Linux 1 - i386 - updates
Finding updated packages
Downloading needed headers
kudzu-0-1.1.36.3-1.i386.h 100% |=========================| 11 kB 00:00
lha-0-1.14i-12.2.i386.hdr 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
tzdata-0-2004b-1.fc1.noar 100% |=========================| 28 kB 00:00
rsync-0-2.5.7-5.fc1.1.i38 100% |=========================| 3.9 kB 00:00
apr-util-0-0.9.4-2.1.i386 100% |=========================| 2.1 kB 00:00
krb5-devel-0-1.3.4-5.i386 100% |=========================| 11 kB 00:00
krb5-libs-0-1.3.4-5.i386. 100% |=========================| 8.8 kB 00:00
kernel-0-2.4.22-1.2199.np 100% |=========================| 43 kB 00:00
samba-client-0-3.0.7-2.FC 100% |=========================| 11 kB 00:00
xmess-0-0.86-1.1.fc1.fr.i 100% |=========================| 5.0 kB 00:00
xmame-0-0.86-1.1.fc1.fr.i 100% |=========================| 5.3 kB 00:00
imlib-cfgeditor-1-1.9.13- 100% |=========================| 2.8 kB 00:00
kernel-smp-0-2.4.22-1.219 100% |=========================| 43 kB 00:00
xmess-xgl-0-0.86-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 3.3 kB 00:00
plib-devel-0-1.8.3-3.1.fc 100% |=========================| 3.6 kB 00:00
cdda2wav-8-2.01-0.a19.2.F 100% |=========================| 4.1 kB 00:00
vcdimager-0-0.7.14-4.1.fc 100% |=========================| 3.3 kB 00:00
gpgme-devel-0-0.3.15-5.1. 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
apr-util-devel-0-0.9.4-2. 100% |=========================| 7.4 kB 00:00
cdrecord-8-2.01-0.a19.2.F 100% |=========================| 5.8 kB 00:00
qt-MySQL-1-3.1.2-14.2.i38 100% |=========================| 8.6 kB 00:00
kdebase-devel-6-3.1.4-7.i 100% |=========================| 15 kB 00:00
xmess-x11-0-0.86-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 3.3 kB 00:00
ghostscript-0-7.07-15.4.i 100% |=========================| 30 kB 00:00
libebml-devel-0-0.7.1-1.1 100% |=========================| 2.4 kB 00:00
imlib-1-1.9.13-15.fc1.i38 100% |=========================| 3.9 kB 00:00
gdk-pixbuf-1-0.22.0-11.3. 100% |=========================| 5.1 kB 00:00
ghostscript-gtk-0-7.07-15 100% |=========================| 6.2 kB 00:00
xmame-SDL-0-0.86-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 3.3 kB 00:00
kudzu-devel-0-1.1.36.3-1. 100% |=========================| 9.5 kB 00:00
gkrellm-themes-0-2.1.8-4. 100% |=========================| 111 kB 00:01
libsamplerate-devel-0-0.1 100% |=========================| 2.0 kB 00:00
gtk2-0-2.2.4-10.i386.hdr 100% |=========================| 13 kB 00:00
qt-ODBC-1-3.1.2-14.2.i386 100% |=========================| 8.6 kB 00:00
nmap-2-3.70-2.1.fc1.fr.i3 100% |=========================| 4.4 kB 00:00
xmame-roms-0-1.0-0.fr.noa 100% |=========================| 1.4 kB 00:00
krb5-server-0-1.3.4-5.i38 100% |=========================| 10 kB 00:00
xmame-xgl-0-0.86-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 3.8 kB 00:00
neverball-0-1.3.7-1.1.fc1 100% |=========================| 18 kB 00:00
kernel-BOOT-0-2.4.22-1.21 100% |=========================| 24 kB 00:00
gaim-1-0.82-0.FC1.i386.hd 100% |=========================| 20 kB 00:00
desktop-file-utils-0-0.3- 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
sqlite-devel-0-2.8.15-1.1 100% |=========================| 2.6 kB 00:00
ghostscript-devel-0-7.07- 100% |=========================| 6.5 kB 00:00
samba-0-3.0.7-2.FC1.i386. 100% |=========================| 30 kB 00:00
lame-devel-0-3.96.1-1.1.f 100% |=========================| 2.7 kB 00:00
qt-devel-1-3.1.2-14.2.i38 100% |=========================| 142 kB 00:00
libsndfile-devel-0-1.0.10 100% |=========================| 3.7 kB 00:00
gdk-pixbuf-gnome-1-0.22.0 100% |=========================| 3.2 kB 00:00
qt-designer-1-3.1.2-14.2. 100% |=========================| 9.3 kB 00:00
libmad-0-0.15.1b-3.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
giblib-0-1.2.4-1.1.fc1.fr 100% |=========================| 1.9 kB 00:00
sylpheed-claws-0-0.9.12b- 100% |=========================| 15 kB 00:00
kernel-smp-0-2.4.22-1.219 100% |=========================| 43 kB 00:00
qt-1-3.1.2-14.2.i386.hdr 100% |=========================| 9.7 kB 00:00
kernel-source-0-2.4.22-1. 100% |=========================| 396 kB 00:02
rrdtool-0-1.0.49-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 4.8 kB 00:00
libdvdnav-devel-0-0.1.10- 100% |=========================| 2.3 kB 00:00
kernel-doc-0-2.4.22-1.219 100% |=========================| 26 kB 00:00
libmatroska-devel-0-0.7.3 100% |=========================| 2.8 kB 00:00
xine-lib-0-1.0.0-0.14.rc6 100% |=========================| 11 kB 00:00
qt-PostgreSQL-1-3.1.2-14. 100% |=========================| 8.6 kB 00:00
gdk-pixbuf-devel-1-0.22.0 100% |=========================| 4.8 kB 00:00
libmad-devel-0-0.15.1b-3. 100% |=========================| 1.8 kB 00:00
pearpc-0-0.3.0-1.1.fc1.fr 100% |=========================| 2.4 kB 00:00
libpng-2-1.2.5-7.i386.hdr 100% |=========================| 3.8 kB 00:00
xmms-xosd-0-2.2.12-1.1.fc 100% |=========================| 2.0 kB 00:00
rrdtool-devel-0-1.0.49-1. 100% |=========================| 5.2 kB 00:00
mkisofs-8-2.01-0.a19.2.FC 100% |=========================| 4.8 kB 00:00
nmap-frontend-2-3.70-2.1. 100% |=========================| 3.4 kB 00:00
powermanga-0-0.79-1.1.fc1 100% |=========================| 13 kB 00:00
libsamplerate-0-0.1.2-1.1 100% |=========================| 2.0 kB 00:00
libsndfile-0-1.0.10-2.1.f 100% |=========================| 2.3 kB 00:00
xine-lib-devel-0-1.0.0-0. 100% |=========================| 5.8 kB 00:00
libpng10-0-1.0.15-7.i386. 100% |=========================| 2.8 kB 00:00
kdelibs-devel-6-3.1.4-7.i 100% |=========================| 132 kB 00:00
id3lib-devel-0-3.8.3-7.1. 100% |=========================| 5.2 kB 00:00
kernel-0-2.4.22-1.2199.np 100% |=========================| 43 kB 00:00
krb5-workstation-0-1.3.4- 100% |=========================| 12 kB 00:00
cdrecord-devel-8-2.01-0.a 100% |=========================| 5.3 kB 00:00
libdvdnav-0-0.1.10-2.1.fc 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
gtk2-devel-0-2.2.4-10.i38 100% |=========================| 37 kB 00:00
gthumb-0-2.4.2-1.1.fc1.fr 100% |=========================| 8.4 kB 00:00
kannel-devel-0-1.3.2-3.1. 100% |=========================| 3.0 kB 00:00
gpgme-0-0.3.15-5.1.fc1.fr 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
kannel-0-1.3.2-3.1.fc1.fr 100% |=========================| 2.8 kB 00:00
gtkpod-0-0.80-0.1.fc1.fr. 100% |=========================| 2.7 kB 00:00
imlib-devel-1-1.9.13-15.f 100% |=========================| 4.0 kB 00:00
xmame-x11-0-0.86-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 3.3 kB 00:00
samba-common-0-3.0.7-2.FC 100% |=========================| 11 kB 00:00
createrepo-0-0.3.6-1.fr.n 100% |=========================| 1.7 kB 00:00
scons-0-0.96.1-1.1.fc1.fr 100% |=========================| 10 kB 00:00
xmess-SDL-0-0.86-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 3.3 kB 00:00
xosd-devel-0-2.2.12-1.1.f 100% |=========================| 2.6 kB 00:00
kernel-smp-0-2.4.22-1.219 100% |=========================| 43 kB 00:00
sqlite-0-2.8.15-1.1.fc1.f 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
advancecomp-0-1.11-1.1.fc 100% |=========================| 2.1 kB 00:00
libpng10-devel-0-1.0.15-7 100% |=========================| 2.6 kB 00:00
kdelibs-6-3.1.4-7.i386.hd 100% |=========================| 104 kB 00:00
libid3tag-devel-0-0.15.1b 100% |=========================| 1.7 kB 00:00
audacity-0-1.2.2-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 4.2 kB 00:00
id3lib-0-3.8.3-7.1.fc1.fr 100% |=========================| 3.1 kB 00:00
ogmtools-0-1.4.1-1.1.fc1. 100% |=========================| 2.5 kB 00:00
djvulibre-0-3.5.14-1.1.fc 100% |=========================| 5.9 kB 00:00
plib16-devel-0-1.6.0-0.1. 100% |=========================| 3.1 kB 00:00
mc-1-4.6.0-17.fc1.i386.hd 100% |=========================| 12 kB 00:00
libpng-devel-2-1.2.5-7.i3 100% |=========================| 3.8 kB 00:00
lbreakout2-0-2.5.1-1.1.fc 100% |=========================| 11 kB 00:00
hpijs-0-1.5-4.4.i386.hdr 100% |=========================| 6.5 kB 00:00
gxmame-0-0.35-0.20040828. 100% |=========================| 3.5 kB 00:00
php-rrdtool-0-1.0.49-1.1. 100% |=========================| 2.3 kB 00:00
lame-0-3.96.1-1.1.fc1.fr. 100% |=========================| 3.5 kB 00:00
kdebase-6-3.1.4-7.i386.hd 100% |=========================| 101 kB 00:00
samba-swat-0-3.0.7-2.FC1. 100% |=========================| 25 kB 00:00
kernel-0-2.4.22-1.2199.np 100% |=========================| 42 kB 00:00
xmms-crossfade-0-0.3.8-1. 100% |=========================| 2.2 kB 00:00
giblib-devel-0-1.2.4-1.1. 100% |=========================| 1.9 kB 00:00
advancescan-0-1.11-1.1.fc 100% |=========================| 2.3 kB 00:00
libid3tag-0-0.15.1b-3.1.f 100% |=========================| 2.0 kB 00:00
lirc-0-0.6.6-3.1.fc1.fr.i 100% |=========================| 7.8 kB 00:00
rhythmbox-xine-0-0.8.6-0. 100% |=========================| 10 kB 00:00
xosd-0-2.2.12-1.1.fc1.fr. 100% |=========================| 2.9 kB 00:00
Name Arch Version Repo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
apr-util i386 0.9.4-2.1 updates
bind i386 9.2.2.P3-9 core
bind-utils i386 9.2.2.P3-9 core
bison i386 1.875-5 core
flex i386 2.5.4a-30 core
gd i386 2.0.15-1 core
kernel i686 2.4.22-1.2199.nptl updates
krb5-devel i386 1.3.4-5 updates
krb5-libs i386 1.3.4-5 updates
kudzu i386 1.1.36.3-1 updates
lha i386 1.14i-12.2 updates
patch i386 2.5.4-18 core
proftpd i386 1.2.9-8.1.fc1.fr freshrpms
rsync i386 2.5.7-5.fc1.1 updates
tzdata noarch 2004b-1.fc1 updates
webalizer i386 2.01_10-14 core

I suspect that's much more than I have or need installed, so is there something I should be configuring to limit what it updates? I am reviewing the online docs for Yum, but any advice is welcome.

3. Assuming I do use Yum, will it overwrite an application that has been customized by DA such as exim or webalizer? Or does this stuff know how to play well together and avoid that?

4. How would I revert to the former version of an app if the latest version causes problems?

Last, if you are using Yum, do you have any comments? Thanks in advance for any help.

[fusionictnl]

DA makes an Ignore list for up2date on RedHat and not for Yum. So if you're updating with Yum, you will probaly update packages wich where customized for DA or are incompatible with DA.

I would recommend you use on Redhat up2date and not yum. On BSD I don't know if DA has created an ignore list for Ports :S

[jlasman]

It's perfectly safe to use yum with DA, after adding this exclude list line:

exclude=httpd* mysql* php* perl* apache* mod_* MySQL* *ftp* exim* sendmail* php* kernel* da_*

to the bottom line of the [main] section of /etc/yum.conf.

That's the first line above the [base] line.

Jeff

[fusionictnl]

For Fedora Core 1 I use the following excludes:

kernel*;apache*;mod_*;mysql*;MySQL*;da_*;*ftp*;exim*;sendmail*;php*;webalizer*;

As on my server I get dependecy problems with the package "webserver" :S Never heard of it :P so I manualy update webalizer when it's needed.

Just in case you get such problem :P You can add webalizer to the exlcude list :)

[ctnchris]

speaking of yum, can anyone tell me what stupid mistake im making with gpg keys?

Getting net-snmp-utils-5.0.9-2.80.1.i386.rpm
Error: GPG Signature check failed for /var/cache/yum/updates/packages/net-snmp-utils-5.0.9-2.80.1.i386.rpm
You may want to run yum clean or remove the file:
/var/cache/yum/updates/packages/net-snmp-utils-5.0.9-2.80.1.i386.rpm
You may also want to check to make sure you have the right gpg keys
Exiting.

[DavidR]

Thanks for the comments and info on excludes. I understood that Up2date was being discontinued at some point? That's why I was investigating yum, which seems to have it's own advantages anyway.

[albatroz]

This post may serve as a moral, I executed YUM without exclusions, and it screwed my Linux+DA :(

Fortunately, I didn´t have any customer data yet

[jlasman]

up2date has been discontinued for all versions of RHL prior to RHEL.

But eEven if you have RHEL you may not be able to use up2date, but may need to use YUM or aptget, if you're renting a dedicated server, depending on your contract with your provider, and your provider's contract with RH.

Jeff

[DavidR]

I guess I need some help. I'm pasting my yum.conf below. I added webalizer to the excludes because of the post above and the fact that it's also excluded in the DA up2date list. Now when I run yum update I get the error about needing a dependent package to install webalizer, and it dumps out. Any idea why it would still be trying to install webalizer? Any help is appreciated concerning this config:


# $Id: yum-fd.conf 378 2004-04-30 16:33:52Z dude $

[main]
cachedir=/var/cache/yum
debuglevel=2
logfile=/var/log/yum.log
pkgpolicy=newest
distroverpkg=fedora-release
gpgcheck=1
tolerant=1
exactarch=1
exclude=httpd* mysql* php* perl* apache* mod_* MySQL* *ftp* exim* sendmail* php* kernel* da_* webalizer*

[core]
name=Fedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - core
baseurl=http://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/core

[updates]
name=Fedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - updates
baseurl=http://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/updates

[freshrpms]
name=Fedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - freshrpms
baseurl=http://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/freshrpms

#[tupdates]
#name=Fedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - testing updates
#baseurl=http://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/tupdates

[DavidR]

Argh, this is frustrating. When yum displays what it is about to update, it doesn't even list webalizer but then it stops cold because it says it can't install webalizer. I've read everything I can google up and still nothing on point. Any help is appreciated.

[vandal]

is it possible you have an old rpm of webalizer installed and not the DA version?

[vandal]

Originally posted by ctnchris
speaking of yum, can anyone tell me what stupid mistake im making with gpg keys?

Getting net-snmp-utils-5.0.9-2.80.1.i386.rpm
Error: GPG Signature check failed for /var/cache/yum/updates/packages/net-snmp-utils-5.0.9-2.80.1.i386.rpm
You may want to run yum clean or remove the file:
/var/cache/yum/updates/packages/net-snmp-utils-5.0.9-2.80.1.i386.rpm
You may also want to check to make sure you have the right gpg keys
Exiting.


you never imported the gpg keys?

try this:

gpg --import /usr/share/doc/yum-1.0.3/*GPG-KEY

**REPLEACE yum-1.0.3 with your version of yum or your location of yum.

[ctnchris]

Im using fedora legacy and have done rpm --import http://www.fedoralegacy.org/FEDORA-LEGACY-GPG-KEY like it said in the instructions. i also tryed saving it and using gpg. Thought apparently they are no longer doing updates for rh8, but id like to figure out why its not working :\

[jw00dy]

Originally posted by jlasman
It's perfectly safe to use yum with DA, after adding this exclude list line:

exclude=httpd* mysql* php* perl* apache* mod_* MySQL* *ftp* exim* sendmail* php* kernel* da_*

to the bottom line of the [main] section of /etc/yum.conf.

That's the first line above the [base] line.

Jeff
What about bind, openssh, openssl? Seems like it's possible updating any of these outside of DA might cause a problem. I'm very new to DA though, which is why I'm asking.

[jlasman]

On my reference system those programs come from the OS RPMs, and not from DA.

Jeff

[jw00dy]

Cool thanks!

[jw00dy]

One other thing to watch for... At least I think this is what happened.

YUM updated it's self, and when it did, it over wrote the yum.conf

So... make sure you watch the updates so that if it updates yum, you can go back in and add the exclude line.

Also if you get the error on CentOS: Could not find the GPG Key necessary to validate pkg

Run this --> : rpm --import http://mirror.caosity.org/centos-3/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-3

I'm sure their are different GPG keys for different flavors of Linux, so I'd see if you can find them for your flavor (read - I'm not sure they are all the same :))

[sander815]

so, when using an exclude list, its safe to use yum to update my system?

and what channels do i use for redhat 9.0?
currently i have these default ones:

[base]
name=Red Hat Linux $releasever - $basearch - Base
baseurl=http://mirror.dulug.duke.edu/pub/yum-repository/redhat/$releasever/$bas$


[updates]
name=Red Hat Linux $releasever - Updates
baseurl=http://mirror.dulug.duke.edu/pub/yum-repository/redhat/updates/$release$

[lbauer]

To keep up to date with the latest kernel updates, would it be safe to remove the kernel* from the exclude line in yum.conf?

[RayManZ]

yeah i want to know that too :)

Someone knows the anwser?

[jlasman]

Updating a kernel is a dangerous thing, though a lot less dangerous than it used to be when we had to compile our own.

Just about every automated update system I've ever seen excludes kernel updates by default.

Before a kernel update takes effect the system must be rebooted.

Here's what I don't know:

1) Does using yum to update kernels do an update, or just add the new kernel (just adding the new kernel is a lot safer)?

2) Does using yum update your lilo/grub so the new kernel will be selected on your next reboot (a must if the old kernel is replaced by the new)?

3) Does yum automatically reboot the server after it does the update (it shouldn't, because you don't have any control over when this could happen, but if it doesn't then the new kernel doesn't take effect until the system is rebooted)?

All of this becomes quite important if your server requires any special drivers (for example for ethernet or hard drives) that may not be supported without a custom module.

Jeff

[lbauer]

I actually did a kernel update with Yum before installing DirectAdmin, so these questions are fresh in my memory. This was with centos 3.

Yum installs the new kernel and updated the bootloader (I am using GRUB). It did not reboot the server. It left the old kernel as a boot choice in the bootloader. It set the new kernel as the default choice. It actually worked very smoothly.

I noticed that the default yum.conf does not exclude kernel updates, but does list them as install only (so they are not treated as an update).

[jlasman]

All very good to know.

Will you be so kind as to document exactly what you did to update and install the kernel?

And please if you would document any changes you made to the "install-only" setting.

I want to try it on a test-server I have here before I actually try it at remotely.

Presuming everything works, I can write the HowTo.

Thanks!

Jeff

[RayManZ]

That would be really nice :)

[lbauer]

As I recall, I really didn't do anyting special. Here is a rundown:

- installed CentOS
- did a "yum check-update"
This step is not needed, but I like to see what yum is going to update before I do the actual update.
- did a "yum update"
This actually installs all the updated packages.

The next time I rebooted the new kernel choice was the default. The way yum is installed by default, the kernel updates are not excluded. Because kernels are listed as install only, they are added, and don't replace the previous kernel.

[jlasman]

On my CentOS and WBEL installs yum doesn't work at all unless I download and install the GPG Key.

Did you neglect to tell us that?

Or did you get it working some other way?

Jeff

[lbauer]

Yep, I had to grab the key also.

[zaphod]

Another good option to use, and by far the safest route, is to use "yum --download-only update". This downloads all of the updated rpms into the relevant folders inside of /var/cache/yum/ and then you install them manually. That way nothing gets updated or installed that you didn't mean to be installed.

[jlasman]

Yes, but that way you can't automate it.

If you set up the exclusion list you shouldn't have problems; we've been using automated updates for several years.

Jeff

[ctnchris]

I still have yet to get yum working for some reason. Doing rpm --import for the key gives me "warning: cannot get exclusive lock on /var/lib/rpm/Packages"

[jlasman]

I found this using Google; it's from a Red Hat list:

> Unsigned warning: cannot get shared lock on /var/lib/rpm/Packages

Something/Someone else is using the rpmdb at the same time.

try:

/sbin/fuser -v /var/lib/rpm/Packages

To see. Or:

ps -aux | grep -i rpm
Jeff

[ctnchris]

I rebooted and that did the trick. I switched to the freshrpms version and its working now :)

[verruckt]

Originally posted by fusionictnl
DA makes an Ignore list for up2date on RedHat and not for Yum. So if you're updating with Yum, you will probaly update packages wich where customized for DA or are incompatible with DA.

I would recommend you use on Redhat up2date and not yum. On BSD I don't know if DA has created an ignore list for Ports :S

If I'm reading this right...

is it just a better idea to use up2date to update your server than yum? One time I had apt installed on a Fedora server and killed my apache becuase it installed v2 over 1.3.

If I'm reading this all right, yum will do similar unless you add to an exclude list? I don't want to get into a "which is better", but it would seem to me that if up2date will only update the existing packages, then isn't that the best way? Or am I missing something?

[justahost]

If only I read the excludes *BEFORE* yumming my server to death.

30 minutes of near heart failure and its back up and going!!

[holographic]

Is this topic now out of date?

I ran a yum update on a fedora core 4 box with no excludes and everything is fine.

Oh and just remember only a fool would run a yum update automatically when *not* in attendance..... Just read all the problems newbies have had doing it.

Alan

[jlasman]

We run yum update nightly automatically on lots of servers without major problem.

The only problem we've noticed is one time when named broke because yum uploaded a new named.conf file. And you would have had the same problem if you did it manually, and becuse there was no error, you would probably have not noticed.

We believe that there's no real hazard in automating yum as long as the excludes are set up.

Jeff