Directadmin - Falling behind?

[cyberneticos]

Hi guys,

For over 4 years our company has been based on Directadmin entirely. We currently do not use any other hosting control panel. We run over 80 machines with DA, and 200 vms that use DA. Some with our own licences, other rented from DCs.

Lately I've been looking around at what's going on with other panels, and I am starting to feel that the other panels are much more beautifull and feature full. It kinda hurts, you know what I mean ? It hurts because I know that DA staff has always worried more about bug fixes and making the system more robust, rather than adding fancy stuff, which is really important. But I find myself looking out the window too often lately and feeling attracted by these other panels.

In Spain we are one of the few companies that use DA. We loose a lot of business in both shared and dedicated hosting, just becuase we don't use the other panels, and also becuase I think when people look at DA it looks old and simple.

The reason why I am expressing my feeling towards DA is becuase I believe in this project, I believe in DA staff, and I want you guys to know how I feel.

I think we need to do start looking like we need to look bigger, sharper and competitive against out competitors. This affect all of us, even our resellers.

I think we need to buy DA some new clothes. So we feel alive, young and powerfull up against the other panels.

I want to look out the window and feel good about using DA.

:o

[smtalk]

I heard that DA will have a new beautiful skin soon (tableless with AJAX etc.) :) (unofficial news)

[floyd]

I know I have looked at Cpanel recently and was lost in all the clutter. Its not very well organized in my opinion. I could barely figure out how to use it.

[NVarra]

I hear you cyberneticos.

Working with DirectAdmin is an absolute pleasure, but it does look very stale. It's getting harder to sell to our clients because it doesn't look good on the surface, and I have to admit that I've also been looking at the competitions products again. Once I look and test though I quickly remember why we use DA. It's not perfect, but it is damn good.

In a perfect world looks wouldn't matter, but hey, I'm as shallow as the next guy. ;)

What would I love to see DirectAdmin feature soon is;


A nice new modern skin (tableless with AJAX etc...)
A way to config/run custombuild from within DA (and watch the compile via AJAX - hey, one can always hope :P).
An official mail user access level.

Keeping a code base maintained is a tough job and I'll continue to show patience in regards to development speed as long as the product remains as rock stable as it is.

[cyberneticos]

I heard that DA will have a new beautiful skin soon (tableless with AJAX etc.) :) (unofficial news)

That's great news. At least a step foward into getting a new look.

It doesn't matter what we , as admins, think of DA, or think of the other panels. What matters is what prospects think of DA when they see it for the first time.

It's hard to convince people of DA's greatness, when the worse aspect about DA is its look. :(

[hostpc.com]

One thing I've heard mentioned is cPanel's ability to have multiple IP's / Certs per user - whereas DA can only have one.

We also are exclusively DA - and I'd really like to see this project go to the next level. Something "new" something "different".

[Orien]

I heard that DA will have a new beautiful skin soon (tableless with AJAX etc.) :) (unofficial news)

That's excellent news nevertheless. :)

[nobaloney]

cyberneticos, with 280 DirectAdmin licenses, I'd think you'd want to have your own identity and your own skin anyway.

We use the DirectAdmin enhanced skin because we specialize in DirectAdmin and therefore we like supporting it as a standard as much as we are able. We've NEVER had a client complain to us about the DirectAdmin skin, and some of our clients even use the original skin.

However, if I had my choice, what I'd like to see is a skin based on Smarty Templates.

There, that's my two cents worth :).

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

Hi Jeff,

Creating and maintaning your own skin in a different language is equivalent to many man hours.

Some how the other panels have managed to have a nice looking one and in many other languages.

Again, just expressing how I feel about DA, not only the skin (seems like we are focusing on it). I'm already testing out other panels, I might even have my customers vote on it.

Again, this is not exclusively about how I feel about DA or DA's skin. It's about how prospects might feel about using DA and what they might think when looking at it for the first time.

We can all sit here and come up with some very good ideas so DA stays the same. We can come up with many excuses to just "be happy" with what we have.

As a DA fan, and one that respects the hard work that goes into DA, I still find myself looking at other panels, feeling like we are falling behind, and wanting to do something about it.

Thanks for the quick fix ideas in any case.

I'll stick with smtalk's post for now, and keep looking around.

[nobaloney]

I do understand your points... however


We can all sit here and come up with some very good ideas so DA stays the same. We can come up with many excuses to just "be happy" with what we have.
Or we (or DirectAdmin staff) could create what someone thinks is the perfect skin, and still you (or anyone or everyone) may not like it.

I'd much rather see constructive suggestions here and in other threads in this subforum.

But of course that's my opinion :).

Jeff


As a DA fan, and one that respects the hard work that goes into DA, I still find myself looking at other panels, feeling like we are falling behind, and wanting to do something about it.

Thanks for the quick fix ideas in any case.

I'll stick with smtalk's post for now, and keep looking around.[/QUOTE]

[cyberneticos]

Hi Jeff,

Again, I am sharing my feelings about the reason why I'm looking at other panels. Going to a new panel becuase I think it's more fresh looking than DA is as constructive as it gets. I am saying clearly saying

"We need a change. DA looks old. Other panels look better and seem to have more features"

Let's not be afraid of change, or afraid someone might not like. Let not allow fear to keep us from getting a fresher look.

This is constructive criticism.

I think that you should realize that I don't waiste my time writing up these posts to just bitch. But to critisize constructivley, be taken seriously since I am a customer sharing his feeling about the product. Not to be taken like a winer.

[nobaloney]

I never accused you of being a whiner. But I don't see anything specific in your criticism, and that's my problem.

Personallly I like control panels to stay the same, and my clients aren't complaining. I'd certainlly wouldn't start developing a skin because you think it's not as fresh as others, without knowing exactly what you'd like to see.

Personally, I think that the skinability of DirectAdmin is one of it's best features, though I personally don't use it.

Of course DirectAdmin isn't my product; perhaps DirectAdmin staff will see your posts as very constructive.

Jeff

[hostpc.com]

I'm hoping Directadmin (John/Mark) can comment on this topic ... there are several of us that feel like cyberneticos ..

People TYPICALLY don't spend a lot of time within the control panel itself (with DirectAdmin) - but a new set of skins would be nice. Also, there have been several threads (this one included) with ideas for new features that we (and our customers) would like to see within Directadmin.

[cyberneticos]

Jeff,

Relax a little. You are starting to sway to the extremity and putting words into my mouth.

I never said, "Change the skin becuase I don't like the current skin" or "I don't like DA's current skins."

I can agree with you that I didn't give any concrete suggestions to make DA a better skin, and a more entising skin to new customers. But that doesn't make my points any less constructive.

Perhaps this thread really isn't for you. Why? Becuase something pushed you to use your own skin, right ? In other words, you have already come to the conclusion that DA's skin wasn't good for your company to use, and you took the iniciate to make your own.

I am not a web designer, and again, it is not easy to translate DA to another language when a good chunk of it is hardcoded (that's another constructive criticism) as it is to just change a few graphics around.

I think we need DA to make a nice, new and bad ass looking skin, with languages included like other skins have it, and add a few new features, or at least make it look like we are a living project with some kind of innovation. Again, I personally know DA is rock solid, is a bad ass panel, but we need to "look" like it too.

If you don't think this is constructive enough, perhaps DA staff will. As a matter of fact, if what smtalk says is true, then DA must have seen the need for this and that reinforces the fact that they might agree with how I feel and believe that how we look on the outside is pretty important and have acted upon it.

[smtalk]

...it is not easy to translate DA to another language when a good chunk of it is hardcoded (that's another constructive criticism)...

Are you talking about hardcoded items like file manager? Take a look at http://directadmin.com/features.php?id=911 :) It's a new feature of DA 1.33.

[cyberneticos]

Hello smtalk :)

Nope, actually talking about like text chunks that are hard coded here and there. I tried translating the skin about 2 years ago, and it was not very translator friendly.

Not much has changed in 2 years in this aspect (part of my criticism to which John already address in a thread I created about a year ago)

[cyberneticos]

Take a look at http://directadmin.com/features.php?id=911 :) It's a new feature of DA 1.33.

I completely missed this :)

This will definetely make it easier for us to translate any new DA skins :)

[floyd]

As you know any form of art is very subjective. A skin is nothing but art. I personally think the DA enhanced skin is the best one out there. I have looked today at the most popular control panels out there. I do not like any of them. I see a few people have commented in this thread in favor of a new skin. Apparently the other members of the forum really don't care that much.

[cyberneticos]

Yep, that's right Floyd ! No one cares !

So why even bother replying ?

:rolleyes:

[floyd]

My point is that you might be able to accomplish more by setting up a poll to find out what others think.

And again, as has already been pointed out many times throughout the forum in many places, you can get somebody to create your own "bad ass looking skin."

If it really meant that much to me I would not waste my time posting here. I would get it done myself. I already got what I paid for from DA.


So why even bother replying ?

You are correct.

[cyberneticos]

Thanks Floyd,

Now I will answer your post. I already gave the reasons why we don't have our own bad ass looking skin in Spanish. And I already gave the reasons why I created this post.

Perhaps you might think they are not good enough reasons, nothing wrong with that, and I can argue that. But I sure gave em already. No need to repeat myself.

The poll idea is certainly a good idea. But I created this thread to express a feeling I had, and talk about it. A poll would have fallen short. Nonetheless, I do value your idea about creating a poll just that I think in this case I wanted a more conversation thread than a "count me in" one.

Cheers

[floyd]

I already gave the reasons why we don't have our own bad ass looking skin in Spanish.

I know. If you would like to know how to get around the text that is hard coded let me know.

By nature I am a problem solver. So when you say you have a problem with translating hard coded text into another language I see that as a challenge to find a way to do it. I think I know a way to do it but I am not going to go to the trouble of actually testing if you really don't want to know the answer.


I never said, "Change the skin becuase I don't like the current skin" or "I don't like DA's current skins."

I am starting to feel that the other panels are much more beautifull
we need to look bigger, sharper
I think we need to buy DA some new clothes

You can see how we would get the impression you don't like the current skins.

[cyberneticos]

Yep, thanks Floyd.

;)

[nobaloney]

Perhaps this thread really isn't for you. Why? Becuase something pushed you to use your own skin, right ? In other words, you have already come to the conclusion that DA's skin wasn't good for your company to use, and you took the iniciate to make your own.
I'm sorry if I gave that impression. What I was trying to say is that we DO use the DirectAdmin skins. And only the directAdmin skins.

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

Naaa,. no problem. Maybe I misread what you were trying to say :)

We use the enhanced skin with a "half ass" translation" currently. The translation problem for me has been solved with this post too (my fault for not reading the last release entirely, thanks to smtalk)

I'm also pretty happy with what smtalk has had to say. Certainly stopped me from looking out. I was ready to try cpee, and I?m going to wait to see if what smtalk stated is true. If so, I'm sure this new skin will be exactly what I (and many others) have been waiting for and with the ease of translation, it makes things even better, and up to par with other control panels.

:D

[floyd]

Let's not also forget that other control panels cost a lot more too. If you want DirectAdmin to keep up with other control panels then the price is going to have to match as well and I for one do not look forward to that.

[cyberneticos]

Good point.

I wouldn't mind paying more, if better. But I think DA is already underway with a new skin with a few new flashy things, and as far as I know won't be charing more.

So DA, in my opinion, will still be the best choice, if smtalk is correct.

[floyd]

Have you looked at the third party skins out there for DA? Just a thought.

[cyberneticos]

Yes. We have 5 shared hosting servers, and use Marina on them. But for VPS and Ded servers (to reduce costs) we use our translated version of Enhanced.

[Internet54]

Seems like this thread is stuck on how "pretty" DA is.

I switched from Cpanel to DA because I was tired of the bugs it had, and it was EATING resources for no reason what so ever. At least twice a week there would be an issue with the server needing to reboot.

I have been with DA for 307 days. I know this because I have NEVER had DA force me to restart the server for any reason. In fact, I have been nothing but impressed about how stable it is.

So, is DA falling behind? YES, without a doubt. But, I'm in the so what crowd. Cpanel has a web drive feature that I would LOVE to have, but I don't trust what they put out. DA has earned my trust and my websites stay online thanks to DA.

I would honestly like to see DA as a more PLUGIN oriented application. For example, I would love to install a plugin that uses and implements Google Apps for my mail server. It would be nice to locate the plugin, install it, and then when I create a new domain it would automatically setup the mail server mx records correctly. Currently I'm doing this manually, which is not a big deal, however the whole process is identical and it manually takes me about 10-15 minutes total to get it done. If a plugin existed, I would immediately install it and use it.

DA is very simplistic to use and is easy to teach to my clients. I would LOVE to see an updated look to the panel, but for now I'm gonna use the Enhanced Skin that I changed to gray scale ( http://internet54.com/?page_id=56 )

I could go on and on about what I would like to see, but I am patient. DA is getting updated regularly and there are many behind the scenes things that are being updated that people have no clue why. I trust the developers have a game plan and they are sticking to it. *One of the reasons why the site is sooooo dang ugly ;)

[cyberneticos]

hehehehe :)

Thanks for your comments I54

[Internet54]

Glad I could make you laugh.

[itsensellc]

Internet54 took the words right out of my mouth.

My take - if user's want all that fancy crap that CPanel has to offer, let them go. I've switched more people from CPanel based systems to my server with DA because CPanel is crap. It's buggy, a lot of the features don't work right, it's a pig, and it's a bullseye for hackers.

The DA staff in my humble opinion has done exactly what they need to do - make the core features of web hosting work, and work well. And that is a monotonous, tedious, time-consuming job. When a lull comes, then work on improving the superfluous fluff (of which, a fancy skin falls into). My user's have been perfectly content with the enhanced skin from DA. I haven't even bothered to change the header.

You as the hosting provider need to remind user's what is important - the stabilization and security of the system.

[cyberneticos]

I'm not sure if people are not expressing themselves correctly or others are not understanding what we are talking about.

Let me give some guidance:

1- We are not talking about sacrificing robustness with looks
2- We are not talking about how we or current customers feel
3- We are talking about competing in the market with other panels
4- We are talking about making money and not losing prospects.

Now, with this in mind, so far, I agree with everyone, and even though it might not seem like it, most people agree with me.

Perhaps when people come into this thread and start reading posts , only read the first few lines, and then start typing. So they contest the first few lines they read, but are leaving the other important information behind.

From what I've gathered, which is the purpose of this thread, is that no one wants to sacrifice stability, and robustness for looks and style, but most people do agree that we need to make us look like we are "all that" (because we really are)

Now, aside from how I may feel or everyone else may feel, if what smtalk has affirmed holds true, then Directadmin has also felt what I have and most other people have felt, and have acted upon it.

So I would like to thank Directadmin for putting this extra effort in making ALL of us more competitive.

No need to look out the window any longer.

We are the bomb, and hopefully soon we will also look like we are :D

Thumbs up for DA team.

[itsensellc]

I dunno - a fancy skin a good control panel does not make. Here's the problem - if you study usability at all, 9 out of 10 times this look I think you're referring to means a lot of confusion to the user. There's a real fine line here to looking like all that, but making sure it's still just as usable because in the end, if it's not, that is going to mean hell for all the admins trying to walk customers through how to manage their sites. The current skin makes sense, and gives the most important information I think. It's just something to consider.


I'm not sure if people are not expressing themselves correctly or others are not understanding what we are talking about.

Let me give some guidance:

1- We are not talking about sacrificing robustness with looks
2- We are not talking about how we or current customers feel
3- We are talking about competing in the market with other panels
4- We are talking about making money and not losing prospects.

Now, with this in mind, so far, I agree with everyone, and even though it might not seem like it, most people agree with me.

Perhaps when people come into this thread and start reading posts , only read the first few lines, and then start typing. So they contest the first few lines they read, but are leaving the other important information behind.

From what I've gathered, which is the purpose of this thread, is that no one wants to sacrifice stability, and robustness for looks and style, but most people do agree that we need to make us look like we are "all that" (because we really are)

Now, aside from how I may feel or everyone else may feel, if what smtalk has affirmed holds true, then Directadmin has also felt what I have and most other people have felt, and have acted upon it.

So I would like to thank Directadmin for putting this extra effort in making ALL of us more competitive.

No need to look out the window any longer.

We are the bomb, and hopefully soon we will also look like we are :D

Thumbs up for DA team.

[Orien]

You can make a design look visually attractive without making it too fancy and hard to use.

[itsensellc]

I don't disagree with that statement.

However, some of the earlier talk of using AJAX and heavy JS sounds moderately like complication to me.

[demz]

i think DA has some prioritys first..

imho they have to fix the backup system first..
i mean:

1. DA is stable
2. DA is trustfull
3. Good to update the machines
4. Fast skin

But it lacks the backup function, and then i mean the restore system ofcourse...

What if an server crashes and you have only the system backup..
GOOD LUCK :)

Better they first fix the ultimate restore option..
Like hdd broke? replace hdd, plain install os, restore system backup and its running again..
Now it will take hours to restore an server..

When thats 100% to, then the skin and plugins.. imho

[cyberneticos]

I dunno - a fancy skin a good control panel does not make. Here's the problem - if you study usability at all, 9 out of 10 times this look I think you're referring to means a lot of confusion to the user. There's a real fine line here to looking like all that, but making sure it's still just as usable because in the end, if it's not, that is going to mean hell for all the admins trying to walk customers through how to manage their sites. The current skin makes sense, and gives the most important information I think. It's just something to consider.

I agree with you. But don't get me wrong with the "looking all that" statement. I definetely love how simple DA is to use, and I do not want to make it all crazy looking. But perhaps a little more modern looking, a bit more web 2.0 looking, same feature,. maybe a navigation menu so you can get to one place from another, etc.. those types of things.

I think we are all on the same page. I agree that we need to fix other importante problems first, but this is also important and we can't afford to just ignore how we appear to the outside.

I also agree that heavy JS and fancy stuff is not good. Cpanel looks good, but it is crowded and extremely confusing. But look at plesk, it's clean, professional looking (but lacks a little in functionality) but it looks good.

Again, I think we are all on the same page.

[floyd]

imho they have to fix the backup system first..
i mean:


But it lacks the backup function, and then i mean the restore system ofcourse...

What if an server crashes and you have only the system backup..
GOOD LUCK :)



Then you are using the wrong backup system. The System Backup precedes the Admin Backup system. The Admin Backup system backs up everything you need to restore users on a new server. I have been using it since it was in beta.

There are good reasons why there is no restore function for System Backup as has been discussed on this forum a number of times.

If you want to discuss backups some more then its probably best to start a new thread.

[nobaloney]

But it lacks the backup function, and then i mean the restore system ofcourse...

What if an server crashes and you have only the system backup..
GOOD LUCK :)
You shouldn't be using the System Backup unless you're an experienced System Administrator. Even then you may not want to use it. It backs up everything you need but it doesn't restore automatically. That said, if you're restoring to the same OS Distribution level just copying over the files/directories should work.

Better they first fix the ultimate restore option..
Like hdd broke? replace hdd, plain install os, restore system backup and its running again..
Which is how the Admin Reseller Backup works.

Now it will take hours to restore an server..
Why aren't you using the Admin Reseller Backup?

Jeff

[walo]

Hey Jeff,

I always thought that a good looking interface cause a better impression.
The integrates skins of DA are not the best.
Enhanced is the best one, but to much simple, lack of images.
Default skin is a little dumb and confused.
An both are not what a server manager want to see. The skin must reflect a robust system.

DirectAdmin is a great control panel. Better than cPanel/Ensim/Plesk (in my opinion) and if it had a good skin it will be awesome.
Surely there will be many people who see the panel and do not choose it because they don`t like the skin and feels it is not good panel.

I tell you this, not because i want a new skin, because I think that DA can be better only with a new skin, and can have more sale as well.

[nobaloney]

See my post immediately prior to this one to see how I feel about skins.

http://www.directadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=156776#post156776

I'd love a skin with Ajax. But otherwise, a skin just for the sake of a skin? Not really for me.

For example, I recently took over some clients from a small hosting company that were running on Marina. I've moved them over to the official DirectAdmin enhanced skin. Not one of them has complained.

Jeff

[walo]

Between us... Mariana is not a nice skin. It is too infantile for me (as well as Default)
I prefer a skin like Ensim skin, which is more serios/tecnical.

As i said before, a good looking skin is the cover of the control panel. Do not influences on the behavior of the system but it is an attractive option for when choosing a CP to buy. If I don't know DirectAdmin I couldn't imagine how good it is by looking it with the default skin.

About AJAX, I can't see the advantage. When I talk about a better skin I don't mean AJAX. I read some people post who request for a skin with AJAX and CSS, no tables, etc etc. I think that those people don't realy know whick is the best for a control panel. They only want modern stuff, which by the by are not appropriated in all cases.

By the way, are you the author of Default and Enhanced skin?

[walo]

About the original subject
Directadmin is a great panel. It work very good. I have a lot of servers width Directadmin and almost never a problem or complaint.
But... it's "Falling behind"
With this i mean, it's basic. For example:
-It dosen't have integration with other popular software (like SimpleDNS, hmailserver, mssql etc).
-Custombuild only have Apache and exim. What about Posfix, Sendmail, lighttpd, litespeed, zeus, ruby, pgsql, tomcat, Dspam, clamav, APF (or any other AV), etc.
-It doesn't support farming, line DotNetPanel, Helm, LxAdmin, and others.
It doesn't have a stable anti-spam with a configuration interface.

I think that there is a lot to do to make DA the best panel ever.

Guys, John, jeff, you can beat the competition. You can be the best. You have the tools.

[tillo]

I think that the advantage of DirectAdmin is that it doesn't have those options.

Almost everything can be modified and scripted. It's a control panel for skilled administrators and everything can be achieved with it if you know what you are doing.

If you integrate all the software you mentioned, it will be just like the other control panels: bloated, slow, bugfilled, unscalable and if you try to modify it just a bit everything falls down.

Don't get me wrong, I think that some features could be useful... but just as scripting or plugins features, and to be integrated very slowly, just as they did with the backup system, the customapache/custombuild systems, the awstats system etc.
It's the only way to keep it stable and fast.

Every other panel I tested has a developing team that tend to rush things, make them easy and fast for the user just to sell more.
It's like Windows or MacOSX versus a linux distribution: you can't build an easy operating system and pretend it to be fast, bugless and most important thing easy to hack.

I love how the DA developing team do things and I hope they never change.

[walo]

That is true. but i don-t agree with the less options as an advantage.
For example, DA stuff can make an API to integrate hMailServer or SimpleDNS, this is no difficult at all. Then you will be responsible to use it o keep external software safe.
Some softwate can be integrated with plugins, like tomcat, but other ones no, like hMailServer, SimpleDNS, lighttpd.

I have 2 servers without control panel and LiteSpeed http server. It is extraordinarily faster that apache.
But this server doesn-t have control panel, because DA does not support this http server.

[tillo]

If you know which API functions it may require and are able to script the rest, you can ask to add them and forge your own plugin :) there already is a small set of API functions and the ability to script almost everything within DA, maybe it is already possible to integrate hMailServer, SimpleDNS, lighttpd...

If think that the best solution is not to ask DA devs to add an optional X program integration, but to ask DA devs to make that integration possible via APIs/scripts/plugins.
I'm not for "less options", just "less limitations" :) if you can integrate lighttpd manually, then you can integrate any webserver you like.

[smtalk]

I have 2 servers without control panel and LiteSpeed http server. It is extraordinarily faster that apache.
But this server doesn-t have control panel, because DA does not support this http server.

http://litespeedtech.com/support/wiki/doku.php?id=litespeed_wiki:apache:da

[walo]

If you know which API functions it may require and are able to script the rest, you can ask to add them and forge your own plugin :) there already is a small set of API functions and the ability to script almost everything within DA, maybe it is already possible to integrate hMailServer, SimpleDNS, lighttpd...

If think that the best solution is not to ask DA devs to add an optional X program integration, but to ask DA devs to make that integration possible via APIs/scripts/plugins.
I'm not for "less options", just "less limitations" :) if you can integrate lighttpd manually, then you can integrate any webserver you like.I don-t need any of those programas. Just following the subject. There area another thread for features request.


http://litespeedtech.com/support/wiki/doku.php?id=litespeed_wiki:apache:daNot a default.

[smtalk]

Not a default.

Because LiteSpeed is not free.

[hostpc.com]

Because LiteSpeed is not free.

Nor is it even priced reasonably, IMHO.

[walo]

Because LiteSpeed is not free.
Standard edition is free. Enterprise is not, but not every people uses only free software. Like directadmin, which by the by is not free.

Besides, it not need to be free to be integrated in a crontrol panel.

[Dravu]

Standard edition is free. Enterprise is not, but not every people uses only free software. Like directadmin, which by the by is not free.

Besides, it not need to be free to be integrated in a crontrol panel.
The free version is pretty much impossible to use with web hosting due to the limitations. Also, it's nice to know that all the programs custombuild builds are free. Throwing in a bunch of trialware or limited software is like giving someone one of those CDs full of software you get with a new computer. Nobody wants it.

For Litespeed specifically, you're paying out the ass for their software and support. With all the money you're probably gonna throw at them, they should fly out to the data center and install it for you manually.

[nobaloney]

About AJAX, I can't see the advantage. When I talk about a better skin I don't mean AJAX. I read some people post who request for a skin with AJAX and CSS, no tables, etc etc. I think that those people don't realy know whick is the best for a control panel. They only want modern stuff, which by the by are not appropriated in all cases.
There are two reasons why I like AJAX... one is that my customers like instant updates, and I do, too.

The other is that our blind clients complain that blind-readers can get lost with tables.

Since some of our clients include branch offices of the NFB, that's important to us.

By the way, are you the author of Default and Enhanced skin?
Presuming you mean me, the answer is no.

I use the enhanced skin, because my company, NoBaloney, has become almost synonymous with DirectAdmin support, so I like to show that :).

Personally I like the power skin better, but I use the enhanced skin because otherwise I won't be as familiar with it when I have to do things for my clients.

With the power skin it's not about looks, but about speed.

Jeff

[nobaloney]

It dosen't have integration with other popular software (like SimpleDNS, hmailserver, mssql etc).
I'm more than a bit confused; how and why would you expect DirectAdmin to be integrated with MS Windows solutions?

Custombuild only have Apache and exim. What about Posfix, Sendmail
Postfix and Sendmail use completely different methods for managing email than does Exim; offering the choice would require a complete restructuring of how email is managed, stored, etc., into a virtual system with lots of links, or require DirectAdmin be rebuilt into a virtual system with separate modules to manage each subsystem. You certainly won't see it in the current version of DirectAdmin.

Just what are the clear advantages of switching mailservers?

lighttpd, litespeed, zeus, ruby, pgsql, tomcat, Dspam, clamav, APF (or any other AV), etc.
Lots of us use many of these with DirectAdmin. I agree that DirectAdmin doesn't manage these; again see my notes about separate modules. This would, in my opinion, require a rewrite from the ground up.

It doesn't support farming, line DotNetPanel, Helm, LxAdmin, and others.
Why all this concentration all of a sudden on Windows hosting?

It doesn't have a stable anti-spam with a configuration interface.
I agree that DirectAdmin could use an interface to SpamBlocker, but stable anti-spam? I don't believe any anti-spam solution could possibly be called stable and still work.

Guys, John, jeff, you can beat the competition.
I'm sorry if you have the impression that I'm an employee of DirectAdmin. I have no more control over the software than you do.

Jeff

[rjd22]

I'm going to give my 2 cents (I know I know its cheap)

First of all we should keep 2 things in mind before thinking of changing directadmin.

What do the users (clients) want.
What do the admins (owners) want.

The clients
What the clients want is quite simple. They don't want features, Plugins, and all other ****. They just want to be able to modify their host easy and simple. A good interface that is intuitive that is what they want. being able to change their site fast.

The owners
We all know that owners want a stable system that doesn't need a lot of editing and maintenance. They like new features but stability > features we all know that. A good visual interface is also what they would like so that they can edit the application fast.

In my opinion a good interface is still needed. Features don't really matter.

I'm offering my services to code the application in ajax and xhtml. If someone or some people could make a nice simple and user friendly design that would be great.

We don't have to wait for directadmin staff to do it. I'm sure we have enough knowlenge as community to do it ourselfes.

[walo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by walo
It dosen't have integration with other popular software (like SimpleDNS, hmailserver, mssql etc).

I'm more than a bit confused; how and why would you expect DirectAdmin to be integrated with MS Windows solutions?With APIs. Obviously you will need a windows server. (like farming)


Quote:
It doesn't support farming, line DotNetPanel, Helm, LxAdmin, and others.
Why all this concentration all of a sudden on Windows hosting?LxAdmin is for linux. Think how easy will be. For example, with mysql, they only need to put a da_hostname variable ib mysql.conf so you can change the connection setting to another host/mysql server.
With email is a bit more complex, but not impossible.

[nobaloney]

That, if done, would put DirectAdmin more into the market currently filled by H-Sphere and others you've mentioned. It would probably require a complete rewrite of DirectAdmin. I'd expect the price would go up because it's a lot more work to support and to develop.

If you're interested in this, then you might want to contact DirectAdmin Sales (http://www.directadmin.com/support.html) and point Mark and John to this thread so they may join in the discussion.

Jeff

[ngds]

Please no H-Sphere path, that's going way off in the wrong direction.

A fresh look would be a marketing help to all of us, and a mail control panel would amuse a ton of customers I can think off off the top of my head.

[floyd]

and a mail control panel

What is a mail control panel?

[nobaloney]

What is a mail control panel?
I'm guessing he means either full control for the email user, or an email-only skin; while I'd love to see both, I know the former is close to impossible.

Jeff

[nobaloney]

A fresh look would be a marketing help to all of us
What kind of marketing help are you looking for?

Jeff

[Nexxterra.com]

(Jeff, Marketing help? How about a line with people with their CC in hand waiting to sign up?)

Most people on this forum are very well versed in hosting, and control panels, BUT the key here is the customer, I have a licence for 3 other Control panels, and I bought yet another for DA, This came from taking some local business owners I am friends with and having them perform tasks, They ALL prefered DA over the others. Also, in the course of a year, how long do they spend in DA anyway?
The looks are easy, the function and support are second to none! That said, a cool new look would be great!

[cyberneticos]

What kind of marketing help are you looking for?

Exactly what he said: A fresh look


Every heard of new car models ? What sells more,. new car models or old car models ?

Business 101

[Nexxterra.com]

Using this example, switching from DA to another panel would be like trading in an older Mercedes for a brand new Yugo! It looks and smells new, But it will never be as reliable as the old reliable Mercedes!

[nobaloney]

Exactly what he said: A fresh look

Evidently you've never taken a course in marketing; marketing has nothing to do with whether or not the model is new.

Sure you can use the buzz around a new model to market around, but you still need to market, and to know how to market what you've got.

And oh, marketing has precious little to do with sales, as well.

Every heard of new car models ? What sells more,. new car models or old car models ?
That honestly depends. For example, see how well Ford marketed the fresh new Edsel (http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1657867_1657781,00.html).

Business 101
It's not that simple. Marketing never is.

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

Evidently you've never taken a course in marketing; marketing has nothing to do with whether or not the model is new.

I've never needed a marketing course. I've gained experience marketing our company in real life, which is what any kind of course is for. To learn.

Publicising a new skin, a new look, or a new whatever IS a marketing strategy WE use. Now if in your case having a new skin is not part of your marketing plans, then,. hey,, that's YOUR business or marketing strategy.


Sure you can use the buzz around a new model to market around, but you still need to market, and to know how to market what you've got.

Yep, no one here never said you couldn't :rolleyes:


And oh, marketing has precious little to do with sales, as well.

I completely dissagree. But coming from you it doesn't really suprise me. Looking at your site, seems like looks is not as important to you. And that's totally respectable. Again, that's how you want to run your own show. In my case, if I had a site like yours we'd have considerably lower sales. That's why , part of my MARKETING strategy is to have my site the way it is. As a matter of fact, with every new look we've had, we've experience increases in sales.

Again, everyone has thier own marketing strategies. And what some of us are saying here is that being able to say "New control panel skin" is a marketing strategy, whether you agree with it , like it, use it or not. And thank god Directadmin also agrees with this.


It's not that simple. Marketing never is.

And , uhmm.. who said it was ? :rolleyes:

[nobaloney]

I've never needed a marketing course. I've gained experience marketing our company in real life, which is what any kind of course is for. To learn.
And I've learned a lot from taking one specific marketing course. But that's just me. The course (which cost a few hundred dollars) was well worth it to me but might have been totally worthless to you.

Publicising a new skin, a new look, or a new whatever IS a marketing strategy WE use. Now if in your case having a new skin is not part of your marketing plans, then,. hey,, that's YOUR business or marketing strategy.
My marketing strategy, as taught in the course, boils down to one specific point: to the end user, benefits are more important than features.

I completely dissagree. But coming from you it doesn't really suprise me. Looking at your site, seems like looks is not as important to you.
I've never claimed to be a site designer. And yes, my site needs a lot of work.

However, my site isn't where I do my marketing. This forum is.

That's why , part of my MARKETING strategy is to have my site the way it is. As a matter of fact, with every new look we've had, we've experience increases in sales.
Absolutely.

But I disagree that changing the look and feel of the control panel helps keep those clients; in my opinion, it risks losing them.

That said, I'm one of the people here who likes that new ajax-based skin that's being discussed on these forums now.

As long as DirectAdmin doesn't eliminate old skins, I'm very happy to see them work on new ones. Some of my clients are still using the original skin and though we make all skins available to them, I'm not willing to risk losing them by telling them they need to upgrade.

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

We're talking about bringing in a newer, more modern looking skin for new clients who compare DA to other panels (for those who haven't used it yet, for those who don't know how great DA is) so DA can have a more powerfull look that can battle up against other panels, not to keep current customers (although, if the panel is good enough, it could also keep customers from switching,...)

Jeff, hehehe,.., I thought you were going to take the comment I made on your site personally :) Glad you didn't. Shows what a great debater and real person you are :p

[CiscoMike]

Just to add my $0.02 to this and it's been hinted at before - DA isn't here to hold your hand. On the surface, and this is completely a generalization and obviously not 100%, DA resellers tend to be more technically inclined than your typical cPanel/Plesk admin. A good chunk of users who purchased DA licenses don't need the panel to run the underlying OS.

To me, that is one of the greatest strengths of DA is that it doesn't do the EasyApache mess that is cPanel. If I want to run Apache 2.2.11 with my own set of included modules, I can. And when Apache upgrades to 2.2.12 or 2.3.1 in the future, I can upgrade day 1 if I am so inclined. Same goes with PHP 5.3.1 or MySQL 5.6.1, etc etc etc. Meanwhile, since my control panel isn't married to the underlying components, it doesn't share the same security vulnerabilities that they do. Go to SecurityFocus.com and do a search for cPanel and then do another for DirectAdmin. 9 pages versus 1.

I'm not disagreeing that some of the extras that you find in a Plesk or cPanel aren't nice for the end-users but they aren't always about web hosting and often times come with their own set of baggage (resource usage, security vulnerabilities, etc). I personally could care less about the minimalist design of the DA default GUI. I don't need pretty icons and flashy HTML to help me run a server or websites but I can certainly understand why people would want that, but it's far from a requirement.

My only major beef with DA is the lack of option on the mail end (Exim vs PostFix, Dovecot vs Courier) and how a simple ./build php or ./build apache literally breaks most customizations to particular config files. I know of the warnings on the config files but as discussed in the Apache forum, some things won't work in the /custom folder when it comes to httpd.conf or the various includes. A flag or setting to not replace config files would be ideal.

Some items like being more flexible with IP addresses (shared between resellers AND still giving those resellers their own unique IP) and a bit more straightforward SSL section (I do everything via CLI anyways so it's a moot point) would be nice. But most of the things I personally see that could improve are minor in nature. At the end of the day, I'm not a fan of cPanel and Plesk because they try to do too much and the effect on the control of your server is actually a negative.

Nothing is perfect, you can't please everyone but DA has done a good job of giving the base functionality that you need without putting a strain on the underlying server and it doesn't limit what you can run/install on the server.

[rsbenedict]

I agree with CiscoMike! I actually like the simplicity of the Enhanced Skin, the other skin is ugly and the help pages need to be modified to also include the enhanced skin. When I, or a newbie, look at cPanel, it's cluttered and has way too many options that most people never use. Plus it takes more clicks to get things done than in DA. WHM is awful altogether. I, too, like the fact that DA and they underlying system are not so tightly intertwined. It allows for you to build the server you want, not the one the panel wants. cPanel is too strict in this fashion. It integrates with everything, controls everything, and because of this, is a resouce hog. If something breaks on cPanel, everything breaks. It's not necessarily the same on DA. I'm always scared of any sys admin that they prefer the simplicity of cPanel/WHM. It tells me that they may not know how to administer the system if it weren't for cpanel's interface. That's scary.

[rjd22]

hmmm i've overlooking this discussion for a while now and let me begin with.....(don't take it personally)
What the heck are you guys thinking!!!!....

Who cares what me and you guys think about the skin and functionality. We could discuss for years about what we want but does that even matter? If I'm thinking right we're not to thoose anything but our clients are.

You don't like the layout? Who cares. If your clients like it then you better deal with it since I'm sure what your clients want is more important.

You don't like how directadmin deals with functionality? Who cares (read above)

If we want directadmin get more accepted than Cpanel you better start asking what your clients would like since they base their choice of host on it.

Lets face it. Cpanel lacks a lot but if you put exact the same hosts next to eachother with DA and CP with the same prices you know what they are going to choose.

Most of the times its only based on the difference between the skin of CP and DA.

This is how it is.

[floyd]

Lets face it. Cpanel lacks a lot but if you put exact the same hosts next to eachother with DA and CP with the same prices you know what they are going to choose.


I do not think for a minute that customers choose cpanel over DA. I think customers choose cpanel because they do not even know that DA exists.

I also think that if customers had never used either one before and they were given a chance to use one for one month and the other for another month they would end up choosing DA because of its simplicity.

I do have to explain to customers time and again how to do something in DA that they had been used to doing in cpanel. And you know what their reaction is when I'm done? They cannot believe how simple it is to do in DA. They were expecting to have to do it the cpanel way which in their words is more complicated.

The above is not my opinion. Its the opinion of real customers.

But all of that being said, it doesn't hurt to have a variety of skins for customers to choose from. I have nothing against extra skins being created. But I do not think DA is falling behind. 99% of customers can do anything they want with DA. Its only the rare 1% that has some weird thing they want to do that DA cannot do. And most of the time cpanel won't do it either.

But if you really think the cpanel skin is that much better and is causing you to lose customers then nothing prevent someone from creating a cpanel clone skin.

[Nexxterra.com]

Before I chose DA I had some friends that owned computers but yet had NO knowledge of how to use them test it first!
They were amazed they could do the task I asked them to do.
Years later, I am made comfortable with my decision when a client calls and asks something like how do I do ???
I get to step 2 of about 5 or so steps and they cut me off saying " ok, I just figured it out" thanks for your help!
It is rare I get to the last step...
Thats simple!

[Dravu]

I think what would solve a lot of fears people are having is to give users the ability to choose the skin they want. I know this has been suggested in the past and I know how it'll be a bit of an annoyance converting it over and making the new system, but it would be very beneficial in my mind. I can make a plugin to do it, but I personally think it should be an official feature by now.

[cyberneticos]

Hello folks,

We are steering away from the purpose of this thread. What we are talking about here is when a prospect, that has never used or heard of DA, has to make a decisión to go with company X with Plesk or company Y with Directadmin or company Z with Cpanel.

We are talking about NEW clients, and about how they might percieve Directadmin (Enhanced skin). Since this NEW client will have to make a decisión primarily based on first impression, and in some cases recomendations, I feel that we do not standup to other panels with our Enhanced skin, and it could FOOL someone into thinking DA is inferior (which we all know it's not)

First impression, for NEW prospects, is what this thread is about.

Just wanted to bring everyone back on the subject :)

[CiscoMike]

Fair enough, perhaps we have gotten off track but a minimalist skin != missing functionality. The thread title makes it sound like DA is missing some sort of function or feature where it's not. If the concern is "DA's default skin is dull and boring and my customers hate it because shades of blue are boring them to death", that's one thing. That's not missing functionality, that's a "pretty" option.

[cyberneticos]

I agree,

But I am not a new customer :)

[floyd]

It seems that some cannot accept that many NEW customers actually like the enhanced skin.

Some new customers are going to like the old enhanced skin and some will want something new. Give them a choice (once the new one is done). Skins are assigned on a per user basis.

I don't know why this argument about skins keeps going. Show off all the possible skins on your sales page. Give the customers the choice. Its not that big of a deal. In fact that would be a great pitch, choose your own skin.

[cyberneticos]

I agree,

The purpose of this thread was to enlighten Directadmin to create a new skin, and they are working on it.

I wouldn't mind if the staff wanted to close this thread, but I also don't mind if people still have the need to express their thoughts.

I would like to thank everyone for participating, in any case, and I would also like to thank John and company for listening to all of us.

Viva Directadmin !!

[pilatus]

To be honest i rather prefer DA and recommend it then any other panel. The simple reason is i like the major opensource approach, the clear view/way in how things are built and compiled and flexibility. I also like that bug/security fixes are priority 1 instead of overloading people with fancy crap :)

Only thing right now is i'm looking for a howto concerning clamav integration.

[nobaloney]

This thread (http://www.directadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=10478) gives you a way to do the ClamAV install.

At some point in the future DirectAdmin will probably include and manage ClamAV.

Jeff

[Alan John Fergy]

Hi guys,

we are using da for many years, and we think that stability of a system is the most important thing, more than useless fancy stuff!
And DA is stable!

[rmwebs]

Sorry to bump this up, but I was about to open a thread with the exact same purpose as this one.

I've read through and I cant for the life of me understand why no DirectAdmin reps have taken 2 minutes out of their day to reply!

I have to say, as much as I LOVE DirectAdmin, it seems as though the developers have become too set in their ways. Its fantastic that they do all the bug fixes and such, but I'm sure they are making enough money that they can hire a marketing team to improve DA's image, and obviously a new designer (sorry, regardless of what anyone says to me, I still really dislike the old skin, and I've had a bunch of customers say the same).

Now, I know I'm now going to get a few 'regulars' moan at me, but my point will still stand.

[floyd]

but my point will still stand

It appears to me that your main point is that you would like a new skin. Is that correct?

[cyberneticos]

I think that as long as skins like Marina and Capri keep coming out DA is still the best panel out there.

But I really wish DA had not only a new skin, but a marketing person, like you say. You can tell not much marketing is done. This would help us enormously. The more DA gets out there, the less prospects we get with "You don't have cpanel?", and the more we get saying "Oh yeah, I love Directadmin"

The better.

Here in Spain, Directadmin is very little know. Thanks to a few companies like mine, Ran Networks, and maybe another one I have missed, Directadmin is starting only to get known.

But this lack of marketing is not helping us.

[scsi]

What you talking about Cpanel looks like complete crap.... There are other 3rd party skins out there. Directadmin shouldnt have to make a new one. They should focus on features.

[cyberneticos]

Yep, see what a little marketing does ?

[cyberneticos]

We're talking about more marketing now. Not new features.

[nobaloney]

Here's what I've learned about CPanel vs DirectAdmin, from recent additions to this thread, and from other threads in these forums :):

1) CPanel isn't that good

but...

2) CPanel uses marketing

and

3) CPanel is expensive

whereas

4) DirectAdmin is better value.

Marketing is not cheap.

Are you suggesting that JBMC, the company that publishes DirectAdmin, hire more people, and raise the price to cover the cost?

:D

Jeff

[scsi]

They should hire people. They have horrible support. Why not at least invest in a ticket system at a minimum? Guess you cant expect much in a 2man run show.

[floyd]

That will drive the costs up so be prepared for that.

[rmwebs]

That will drive the costs up so be prepared for that.

At the end of the day, if it provides new enhancements (both in design, features and support) I cant see a price increase being an issue. People are willing to pay cPanels (rather hefty) price tag, and its clearly working for them. They are storming ahead (again in customer base).

[cyberneticos]

I've never had a problem with support, although a ticket system would be nice.


Are you suggesting that JBMC, the company that publishes DirectAdmin, hire more people, and raise the price to cover the cost?

No. I suggest doing more marketing. Whether that means hiring 1 person to do it, or do it themselves. And yes, I know that requires money.But, marketing, if well done, pays for itself. What they might need is investment. I don't know, I don't run the company,. I can only tell you what I see from the outside, just like everyone else.

I wouldn't mind paying more if that means DA get out more and starts competing seriously with the other "crappy" panels. Becuase in the long run, that will help my sales.

Now let me ask you this (jeff):

Are you implying that everything is just perfect and why bother with this bullcrap thread?

:)

[scsi]

I dont get why they need to market it when you are the one selling the service that should be marketing it to your customers? As long as you know about it thats all that matters.

[floyd]

I think Dell probably sells more computers than they normally would because Microsoft does a lot of marketing.

I think DA hosts would gain more customers if DA had more name recognition.

But I also think DA is already gaining name recognition. It is mentioned a lot over at Web Hosting Talk.

[cyberneticos]

I don't market hosting control panels. I market hosting products.

I thought that was obvious.

Come on people. Quit asking dumb question you already know the answers to, quit acting like there's nothing wrong with DA.

It would help us all for DA to get on the ball and start making this look like a serious product, and not a serious project.

Everyone here, including myself, knows DA is the best. But there's a whole world outside of this community that doesn't. That's why the other panels are STILL more famous, and are STILL more purchased and are STILL more used.

So we can either keep this attitude of "it's all perfect, making things better is redicouls becuase DA is the best" or we can start pressuring DA to make things better.

Do car dealers promote VW engines ? NO. VW does. Car dealers promote CARS with VW.

Does VW promote their engines ? Of course they do. So people buy cars with VW engines.

[cyberneticos]

I think Dell probably sells more computers than they normally would because Microsoft does a lot of marketing.

I think DA hosts would gain more customers if DA had more name recognition.

But I also think DA is already gaining name recognition. It is mentioned a lot over at Web Hosting Talk.

DA is gaining recognition beucase companies like mine and yours are promoting it.

We need help.

[floyd]

If DA is going to start doing a lot more marketing I want to know in advance so I can buy some lifetime licenses now at the current rate before they go up.

[cyberneticos]

Hehehee,.. Well, here you are making it seem like they would raise the price just to start doing marketing. In this case, maybe you purchasing all of the sudden 100 licences could help them to started without raising the price.

First we don't even know if they are reading this.

Secondly, if they are, and maybe thinking of doing some kind of marketing (whether it was after or before reading this), who says they are going to fund it by raising license prices ? And if so who says it's going to be a lot (or enough to make people freak and buy a ****load of license before they raise the prices ?)

Thirdly, It would be nice to hear from them as to where DA is going, what are the plans, what is the road map, what are the "big plans" with DA. Any maybe they can start asking people what they want or need, instead of an overbeat "feature request" forum.

It may sound like I'm being negative about DA. I am a little, but I really want to know what's the future of DA. I would like to hear that there is some kind of plan to smash the other panels.

[decafranky]

DA is very stable, looks ok, and has a fair price
Support is also very good (<24h)

what control panels are looking fancy??
Cpanel is ugly and i hate the windows look from plesk, and they are not stable

no thanks, using DA for several years and i am happy with them

[webquarry]

I'm in the camp that believes that DA simplicity IS its major selling point, especially to new users.

We use DA almost exclusively but will outfit a server with another panel if the client requests it. In going through our trouble tickets that are control panel related, the number of problems with DA roughly equals the number of problems with the other panels even though DA installations outnumber the other panels by at least a factor of ten.

That's reason enough to keep pushing it.

[floyd]

the number of problems with DA roughly equals the number of problems with the other panels

That is probably because people are not as familiar with DA and therefore have more questions about how to do stuff in it.

Actual problems caused by DA are probably fewer in number that the others.

[webquarry]

That is probably because people are not as familiar with DA and therefore have more questions about how to do stuff in it.

Actual problems caused by DA are probably fewer in number that the others.

Exactly my point. The number of DA installations that we have are easily ten times the number of other panels. SO... given that cp related support tickets are the same in number one can roughly deduce that DA is ten times easier to use than the other panels...

[nobaloney]

Now let me ask you this (jeff):

Are you implying that everything is just perfect and why bother with this bullcrap thread?
Not exactly but similar.

First, let me say that I've never had a problem with DirectAdmin nor have I ever lost a client who when asked (we ask clients when they leave) said it was because of the control panel.

But I understand that there are people who want something other than what DirectAdmin offers them, but they want to stay with DirectAdmin. I know what you mean, and I empathize with you; I'd love to buy a new Cadillac for the same price I paid for my ten-year-old Ford. I'd probably even get the same or better gas mileage.

I really don't think that this thread does anything to help any of us get a better (or even different) DirectAdmin. I think a direct email conversation with DirectAdmin staff (http://www.directadmin.com/support.html) would probably be a better approach.

Jeff

[floyd]

Exactly my point.

Oh ok. Got it.

I think really the only thing to work on is marketing. Who is responsible for that? Everyone.

[cyberneticos]

Not exactly but similar.

First, let me say that I've never had a problem with DirectAdmin nor have I ever lost a client who when asked (we ask clients when they leave) said it was because of the control panel.

Jeff, no offense, not trying to disrespect you, but by the looks of your site, it doesn't look like you're trying to complete with anyone, and maybe since your not in the highly competetive hosting market proactivley, you're missing out on some important stuff.


I'd love to buy a new Cadillac for the same price

Nothing of what I asked for, I asked for the same price. As a matter of fact, I already stated earlier that I wouldn't mind paying more, for a better product. I actually WANT to pay more for a better product.


I really don't think that this thread does anything to help any of us get a better (or even different) DirectAdmin.

I do. Becuase I beleive this very thread is the perfect kind of feedback Directadmin wants.


staff (http://www.directadmin.com/support.html) would probably be a better approach.

This thread has been growing since I created it non-stop. Many users are sharing their opinions, of all sizes and colors, and this is certainly a lot more valuable than me just sending them 1 email to support asking them to spend more money on marketing and makeup, don't you think?

[cyberneticos]

I think really the only thing to work on is marketing. Who is responsible for that? Everyone.

I agree. And who isn't doing their job? Directadmin, in my opinion.

Again, I am hoping DA staff takes this as contructive feedback. Not destructive.

Sincerely yours,

A happy, but could be happier, DA customer, promoter, marketer, helper and community member.

[nobaloney]

I'll add only that I'll hope that DirectAdmin wouldn't give up selling a control panel at the current price point, as there are people who buy based on price, and I'd hate to see DirectAdmin lose out on these users.

DirectAdmin staff is reading this thread, so we'll see where it goes from here.

Jeff

[btnet]

I choosed DA because of it's simplicity and minimal load on a system.
clients should go on functionality not looks, period.

i used cpanel. cpanel never seems to work corectly , there is always something wrong there and the price sucks.
plesk sucks more. security is ridiculous, performance is week, price high because in order to use all tools you need tu buy more stuff. and they are rippers. I had an window server, plesk knew only 4 commercial mail server and one free snd guess what, the free one doesn't work.

btw I think DA skin is ok and now im working on removing the few images present in order to make a plain text panel, customised for my customers

[gerrybakker]

I can't think of anything I'd want added to DirectAdmin's control panel. It works, it's functional, it's fast and it's comprehensible by anyone that is new to it. It is stable, it is easy to deploy and it looks great in its present form. When technology demands an adjustment or a fix DirectAdmin's authors releases fixes or new features that addresses them and makes them available to all licensees. Sure there are some esoteric seldom used ideas that some others might want but DirectAdmin's authors stick to what is clean and practical for all instead of getting side tracked down wasteful dead ends. I should add that I use the "Enhanced" skin - it is clean and simple and I don't get support tickets or calls about it - ever. Anyone can make a skin to add to DirectAdmin so quit complaining and make your own skins if the Enhanced one isn't to your liking.

You know what I would like? I'd like solid import scripts from cPanel and Plesk and Ensim to DirectAdmin. If we had those the whole world would beat a path to DirectAdmin. Migration is so onerous that hosters stay trapped in costly beasts like cPanel and Plesk. Great billing/provisioning systems like WHMCS work great with DirectAdmin so use them instead of asking DirectAdmin to lose focus and get sidetracked making things that already exist.

Support? DirectAdmin staff always answer my emails with real solutions to real problems and they always seem to do it within about 24 hours - that is amazing - at others you never hear back from them.

There are always eggheads out there that want a million icons that take them down to granular levels and features they should never be allowed to play with. It is why cPanel and Plesk are so unreliable - too much exposed to ignorant users who shouldn't be playing with those weapons in the first place. I've worked with them all - I'm an old war horse in this industry and I can tell you from years and years of experience that the guys at DirectAdmin are doing the right thing the right way and I can also tell you that even though their site-helper.com site is old and outdated it is still one of the best and most focused references on what to do for most casual DirectAdmin users - I wish they would spend a week combing through it and updating it and getting grid of those old ugly icons.

Marketing? It is a great idea but an unaffordable one if it means hiring employees that promise the moon but deliver nothing - it would bankrupt the company - it would pollute the purity of what DirectAdmin has created.

DirectAdmin is not making a fortune at their current prices but I am sure they are making a comfortable living - good for them - they still have a life of their own - how many of you can say that for yourselves? Marketing? We need to do our own marketing to our own respective markets - we need to let DirectAdmin focus on what they do best - make and keep things running.

Could DirectAdmin do a better job marketing - you bet - but at what price? A community effort contributing our collective and respective skills to come up with marketing materials and then use them to educate the public about our favorite control panel would be a much wiser thing to do with our time. Look at how much time has been invested in this thread to complain - what a waste - why not put the same energy into creating and sharing quality marketing materials for DirectAdmin? Should we do it for free? You bet! Look at how much John and his crew have liberated us from the clutches of money grubbing cPanel and Plesk? Look at how much more profitable your respective hosting companies have become because you adopted DirectAdmin. Look at how much easier your hosting duties became after adopting DirectAdmin. You owe it to DirectAdmin if you love them or respect them at all. For all of you who never used anything but DirectAdmin - you have no idea how good you have it.

A little but significant side note: John and his crew never set out to take over the control panel market - they built it for their own use and then friends told friends who told friends who told friends ..... - John and his crew never had to go to the bank and borrow money or sell shares to launch themselves - nobody owns them or tells them how to rip off others to satisfy shareholder's greed. cPanel started off as a good thing until they probably sold their soul to the devil for short term gain - the cPanel founders probably never got the returns they thought they would - their shareholders probably bled them dry. I don't wish that fate on our good friends at Directadmin. Learn from others - don't make the same mistake that cPanel did.

[cyberneticos]

Such a sweet story, Gerry.

Let's talk business. Let's talk money.

I am not a comformist, I'm a business man.

John, I think I deserve an answer to my emails.

Cheers.

[QuantumNet]

+10 to those who have requested Smarty templating engine...

I wouldn't mind the theme so much of it was quick and painless to update with my own design. But the default one needs to be light with few graphics using smarty so updates dont require a skin updated.

[interfasys]

My vote on a better way of customizing skins, among other things.
I wish the whole system was plugin based as well. Pick and mix your contol panel components.

[cyberneticos]

Directadmin looks like a slowly dying project.

Web has not been updated in years.

Forum has the same ugly format it's had for at least 5 years.

No new skins in years.

Current skins have not been updated in years.

Their licence system is old, ugly and doesn't work very well.

They have no ticket system to confirm important critical message receipts

They say the have a chat room that has been erroring out for 2 years at least.

Their main site has not changed in years.

Nothing has changed in years except a few bug fixes.


John, since you don't respond to my emails, how about you respond here. You seem to respond in every other forum. You seem to be around doing stuff. I think I deserve and answer with over 200 Directadmin licences in my account.

How much longer is DA going to keep things the way they are?

I need to make a serious business decision. I need your help.

Thanks.

[walo]

Scary!!

Is Directadmin going to keep on track?
I have exactly 111 active licences and it will be very very terrible if DA gone. :confused:

[Nexxterra.com]

You have a few valid points, however if you take one moment to re read your post you have NOT mentioned one thing about the core function of DA!
And that in my opinion really i the important thing, skins, and other items can easily be dealt with by your company, as for the chat, they should get rid of it as they do not have 24/7 staffing, Skins, I agree, however, I am not sure what you like would be the same as what I like, so where do they draw the line? forum, ticket system licensing, they work well enough. I use WHMCS and although I have lifetime licensing, I get hit with a yearly fee.... If DA was to stay on top of all this stuff, I am sure they would need to resort to something like this to cover overhead....

[QuantumNet]

I dont think they would have more overhead by bringing the look up with modern times. I think they would attract more business.

But like I said before a smarty templating system would allow us to manage a new design. their current implementation sucks having to update all the time, which is why most companies chose to stay with the default in the first place.

[floyd]

But like I said before a smarty templating system would allow us to manage a new design.

That would require me to learn something completely new. With the current system I can make changes with no problem.

[ditto]

That would require me to learn something completely new. With the current system I can make changes with no problem.

So what? That is not a valid reason for DA to not use Smarty.

[floyd]

So what? That is not a valid reason for DA to not use Smarty.

My reason is just as valid as anybody else's.

Just because somebody else cannot keep up with the current templating system is not a reason TO start using Smarty.

Changing to using something else just because you can is not always a good idea.

WHMCS uses Smarty and I find it very difficult to make any changes in the templates.

[walo]

I don't see smarty for a control panel as a good idea, but definitely the current skining system is VERY poor. I developed Marina and Capri skin, since 2005) and i can say that is is very hard and complicated to add new features to the skin. Also, not all APIs are available to make custom panel.

[Nexxterra.com]

Your skins are quite a bit nicer than the Basic DA and more intuitive for the user.... however, I have held off using as the forums indicate slow response from your company, and I sent an email from your site that was never answered....
If a partnership with DA was worked out where the skins were "synced" with the version release, this would be a great thing... that way there would be no lag between DA releases and the skins functions.
I believe as a profit based company, I need to make decisions based on income, What the non tech user does not know does not effect them (to a degree) most things like the forum, and other things to support us, the DA license holders are not something that will change our profitability.
I find DA like any control panel, requires a learning period, and the greatest thing about DA is this period seems to be very short for my users... even with outdated skins!

[walo]

beyond the skin, i like DA, just worry about its future.

[IT_Architect]

WHMCS uses Smarty and I find it very difficult to make any changes in the templates.I used to look for Smarty in apps until we got an update to a line-of-business application that went to it. Smarty complicates my life beyond measure.

[cyberneticos]

Thank John, for demonstrating your interest in our feelings about Directadmin.

:mad:

[ranz]

I fail to see how important look and feel is to overall system functionality and stability. This has been said before in this thread.

If I compare DA to another panel: One thing that annoys me about Plesk, is that it has a stupid "Loading" thing everytime you click on something - and the pages take forever to load - even on Quad Core Xeon servers. You never get problems like this with DA. And I can never find anything in Plesk ... it's not well organised - neither is Cpanel.

I would prefer DA to spend more of their time building in better anti-spam features (for example). I also think that their documentation for the user needs some updating. I was looking in there the other day for information about Mailing Lists - and found next to nothing.

I have never heard a client complain about the design of the panel. I have only ever had one Web Designer say "we're used to working with Cpanel" - and guess where they ended up?

I personally think John (and the DA team) are fairly busy with other priorities. Although, I don't see how a quick "your comments have been duly noted" couldn't hurt their busy schedule.

[gerrybakker]

I moved from Plesk to DirectAdmin years ago because of the grief I had with Plesk's convoluted everything. Once the move was complete my life settled down and has been great ever since I moved to DirectAdmin.

I just inherited 6 Plesk servers with about a 1000 clients on it and although Plesk is pretty it quickly reminded me why I ran away so fast in the past. What a nightmare. It is as if I am reliving some post war stress syndrome hallucination - all of the horror is coming back to me again.

I guess some people just don't know how good they have it with DirectAdmin. I commend John and his team for resisting the urge to add useless visual noise and for keeping their focus on rock solid functionality that is the fastest out there. Web hosting is not about boys and their toys - it is about running profitable businesses with minimal effort, labor and expense - DirectAdmin does it best. Add WHMCS to the mix and you have a solution that others only dream about.

[floyd]

I just polled all my customers to see who would be interested in switching to Cpanel. Result = .5%. Not 5% but .5%.

I am still going to add Cpanel to our service as an option because I feel their will be enough interest to make it worth it. But the responses I got were that Cpanel was complicated, had a bunch of useless functions, DirectAdmin's simplicity is what what brought them to us in the first place.

I say if you want DirectAdmin to be more like Cpanel or any of the others then then set up a server to use them. Add them to your service. Nobody says you have to use just one control panel. But I can guarantee you that in general DirectAdmin users do not want a Cpanel like control panel.

[MaxPower]

I agree,

The purpose of this thread was to enlighten Directadmin to create a new skin, and they are working on it.

I wouldn't mind if the staff wanted to close this thread, but I also don't mind if people still have the need to express their thoughts.

I would like to thank everyone for participating, in any case, and I would also like to thank John and company for listening to all of us.

Viva Directadmin !!

http://www.outservices.net/marina.php << here is a nice skin. :D

Personally, DirectAdmin should just buy out the rights to the marina skin... All my customers love it, clean, easy... the best.

[floyd]

the marina skin

I can see why people like it. For me its too much to look at all at once. Its hard for me to find what I am looking for because of all the other distracting links and images. That is why I do not CPanel. I am a little ADD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD_predominantly_inattentive)

[MaxPower]

I can see why people like it. For me its too much to look at all at once. Its hard for me to find what I am looking for because of all the other distracting links and images. That is why I do not CPanel. I am a little ADD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD_predominantly_inattentive)

If that is the case then use power_user it sorta looking like the ensim control panel.

That is what originally brought me to DirectAdmin. I used an Ensim CP when I hosted at ThePlanet.com, and the familiarity with Ensim and the power_user a comfortable transition.

:D

BTW, have you looked here? http://www.cpskins.com/directadmin-skins/ Concise DirectAdmin Skin may be what your are looking for?

[nieuwhier]

DA is the best. Have lots of servers now with it and it just works!!!

Good forum
Good support.
Very stable
Please no fancy stuff in the control panel. It only makes things buggy.

I have plesk on all my windows servers now for years. NIGHTMARE!!! Realy. No good supportforum, everything you post there is reviewed before visible so they are afraid of bad opinions in there forum. Realy... it is very bad!
Although it will cost me a lot of money and time I will be moving all windows servers to another hostingpanel.

I wish there was something like DA for windows...

[MaxPower]

DA is the best. Have lots of servers now with it and it just works!!!

Good forum
Good support.
Very stable
Please no fancy stuff in the control panel. It only makes things buggy.

I have plesk on all my windows servers now for years. NIGHTMARE!!! Realy. No good supportforum, everything you post there is reviewed before visible so they are afraid of bad opinions in there forum. Realy... it is very bad!
Although it will cost me a lot of money and time I will be moving all windows servers to another hostingpanel.

I wish there was something like DA for windows...

Yeah, agreed Plesk sucks, and when they took over Modernbill, it went to hell too. (I do have a 250 MB license if anyone wants to buy it cheap) ;)

DA & WHMCS works for me...

[floyd]

If that is the case then use power_user it sorta looking like the ensim control panel.

I like the enhanced skin just fine. So do my customers.

[outpernet]

I think nearly all was said, but I want to express my opinion also.

DA needs to catch up others control panel. If some fears that new features will put in danger stability or simplicity, ok, so put then in third hands the responsability. Improve plugin method, get a new API system so we can get farming, google apps, etc. In that way, the DA client that doesn´t want new features can disable plugin and API features and that´s it. All happy.

The roadmap of DA is very poor right now, and we are, like costumers, no so happy for that.
Is not a good signal not to improve yourself because fear. Personally I think that is the motive of some DA users. My concern, worry, is guessing why DA owners are so quiet

[nobaloney]

Perhaps because most of us prefer simplicity, and a hosting panel to which we can add what we want, to something that includes everything. Don't forget if DirectAdmin includes everything the price will inevitably go up.

Jeff

[nieuwhier]

Personally I think that is the motive of some DA users. My concern, worry, is guessing why DA owners are so quiet
I think you are totally wrong here.

So you think something like plesk (linux/windows) is better ? Get real....

[floyd]

If you want a Honda then you buy a Honda. If you want a Nissan then you buy a Nissan. It would be stupid to buy a Nissan and whine and complain about it not being like a Honda.

Realize that each control panel has its own set of features. Don't buy DirectAdmin and then complain about it not being like the others. Buy the control panel you really want to begin with. If DirectAdmin were like the others then there would be no reason for DirectAdmin to exist. The reason it exist is because of its differences.

[Nexxterra.com]

Gerry....I would work on changing all your new plesk clients over to DA, get ready and one night...convert all, be ready with support.... but I would bet most would love it the same as you do!
As for outpernet.... over the past few years I wanted to buy your skin, every time I have attempted, your site has issues, try adding capri to your cart...
I can say that DA has never let an issue go un checked for longer than the fix took.
Most of my users and most of the clients I surveyed lean towards simplicity, click here to do this, click here to do that... and they expect what they expect to happen to actually happen

[ranz]

Most of my clients wouldn't have a clue ;)

That's not meant to sound fecetious, but they rely on our support for their setup. They even admit to it.

We don't mind, as this is what makes us different from the rat race.

Having said that: most of them, after shown once, are more than capable of performing a task like adding an email address. We use the enhanced skin, and they've never said anything negative about it.

[nobaloney]

@ranz,

Have you looked at the available flash video demos? We bit the bullet and bought them, and they really help in our support issues.

I had a conversation yesterday with one of the flash video publishers; I'm still trying to talk him into creating a set for email conversion between port 25 unauthenticated and port 587 with password authentication, as that's the default for the new SpamBlocker.

So far I haven't convinced him but I'm still trying.

Jeff

[cbservers]

I hear you cyberneticos.

What would I love to see DirectAdmin feature soon is;


A nice new modern skin (tableless with AJAX etc...)
A way to config/run custombuild from within DA (and watch the compile via AJAX - hey, one can always hope :P).
An official mail user access level.


Yeah, what he said.........



As you know any form of art is very subjective. A skin is nothing but art. I personally think the DA enhanced skin is the best one out there. I have looked today at the most popular control panels out there. I do not like any of them. I see a few people have commented in this thread in favor of a new skin. Apparently the other members of the forum really don't care that much.
Actually I care, but I don't read every post and comment on it. I've only just come across this thread.

Comparing software packages is like comparing political parties. Perception is everything. We all know Direct Admin is great, but to the new prospective clients, looks matter.

I've just changed over to the Capri skin it has some ajax, but it looks a fair bit more modern.

I'd love to see DA go to a full-on AJAX enabled skin with direct access to custombuild and maybe administrator configurable macro buttons that can execute shell commands to save having to ssh into it.

[floyd]

We all know Direct Admin is great, but to the new prospective clients, looks matter.

Exactly. And the DirectAdmin Enhanced skin is preferred by my clients 150 to 1. So whatever happens I hope the Enhanced skin is supported because that is what is preferred by the vast majority of my clients.

I even now give my new clients a choice of Cpanel or DirectAdmin. More still choose DirectAdmin over Cpanel.

I have no objection to new skins as long as the old ones are still supported. My clients do not like all the clutter of Cpanel and Cpanel like skins.

[nobaloney]

I'd love to see DA go to a full-on AJAX enabled skin with direct access to custombuild and maybe administrator configurable macro buttons that can execute shell commands to save having to ssh into it.
If the DirectAdmin control panel allowed shell commands then you'd have to allow only https connections.

Jeff

[cbservers]

I have no objection to new skins as long as the old ones are still supported.I think dropping support for a popular skin would be a self defeating exercise.


If the DirectAdmin control panel allowed shell commands then you'd have to allow only https connections.
You could include a setting to only allow those shell commands/functions while under a SSL connection.

[skaag]

Thanks to this thread, I discovered the Capri skin, which I immediately purchased ;-)

It's just what I had in mind, when I thought about creating my own skin, to rival other panels. It's beautiful, professional, elegant!

There is no other question about DA vs. other panels. If only for the support I got from Mark over the years, the other Panels simply do not compare in terms of stability, predictability, feature rollout, I just think the DA team are excellent and doing an awesome job. And with the Capri skin, I believe this seals the deal completely!

[smtalk]

I was given full exclusive rights to this skin in leiu of a years salary for my work as a system administrator for Evanet.lt. Since full exclusive rights don't pay bills, I need to find a suitable buyer to transfer the exclusive rights to this DirectAdmin skin to.

I first approached DirectAdmin with an offer to get the exclusive rights, but thier position is that the skin is not something they're looking for, and that their customers wouldn't like it.

I'm now opening the offer up to the entire DirectAdmin Community.

We've been talking about how other Control Panel packages have moved ahead in the looks department, making DirectAdmin's look and feel seem rather old. While DirectAdmin's core functionality remains best-in-class, it is true that, astetically speaking, it's being passed up.

I am not interested in selling licenses, I'm interested in selling the rights to this entire package, as a whole product, to one buyer who can then choose to do whatever he or she desires to do with it.

If you are interested, please let me know.

Serious inquires only.

Demo:
http://vps.evanet.lt:2222
Login: demo_user
Password : demo

[cyberneticos]

That was the kind of iniciative I was hoping for from DA. They seemed to get the ball rolling with that skin.

¿ What happened ?

[ranz]

@smtalk:

Martynas - I really like your skin - excellent job! You've obviously put a stack of work into this - and it shows. I'm just checking it out now - my initial first recommendation would be to put a small border on the Right-hand side to (to cater for wider monitor widths, and frames evenly with the Blue border on the left).

[smtalk]

That was the kind of iniciative I was hoping for from DA. They seemed to get the ball rolling with that skin.

¿ What happened ?

I mentioned the reasons above :)

[cyberneticos]

I see, I didn't understand the post too well. But I think I understand now.

How lame.

[rjd22]

smtalk pm me the price that you want to have for it. I like the theme and consider buying it.

[smtalk]

Don't hesitate to send me the offer privately. Thank you! :)

[Webgecko]

G'Day Martynas,

I've had a look at the skin that you've developed and it far surpasses anything that's currently available. Well done!!

Just so that I'm clear...and anyone else is clear about it....your NOT selling licenses for your skin?

Cheers Mate!!

[smtalk]

Thanks for your opinion. No I'm not, but I think that the buyer will do that. And if I don't get any good offers, then there will be no other way just to sell the licenses by myself (unless DirectAdmin changes their opinion and will include this skin to be the default one).

[MikeVrind]

To bad that DA wont use this skin by default.
DA is always advancing, except for the looks. DA should look and feel more 2010.

[walo]

Falling behind?? no way man...
Check it out
http://www.directadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12180
They only took 4 years to implement that.

[nieuwhier]

They only took 4 years to implement that.
If you don't like that then go some place else ?

Stability is what you get in return for this. I have never ever had any real problems with DirectAdmin, I honestly cannot say that for all the others panels I have worked with (bought some companies in the years that worked with other panels)...

[walo]

So are you saying that 4 years ago that feature was unstable and now is not?

[walo]

And no, im not going to any other place, i hace 278 licenses. You can estimate my cost. I have some right to complain

[nieuwhier]

So are you saying that 4 years ago that feature was unstable and now is not?
No I am only talking about stability; this is more important for me than adding all kinds of functionality.

[nieuwhier]

And no, im not going to any other place
If you could you would ?

[Peter Laws]

Its here now, so lets complain about something else walo (tongue-in-cheek)

[nobaloney]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, no matter how many licenses they own.

Continuing to use this thread to bicker and vent, and for nothing constructive, may result in closing the thread.

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

Excuse me Jeff,

This is our feedback in it's purest form. If you don't want to want to hear our feedback, then go ahead and close this thread.

This will only confirm that Directadmin gives a hoot about our feedback.

I agree with Walo 100%. And I still think Directadmin is falling WAY behind on many things that are important to my business.

This is, has been and will continue being my feedback until:

1- Directadmin gets on the ball
2- I find something better.

Our feedback can only be constructive if it gets responded to and threatening to close the biggest feedback thread in Directadmin's history is not constructive either.

[walo]

If you could you would ?


Its here now, so lets complain about something else walo (tongue-in-cheek)I dont expect everyone to accept my suggestions or feedback. You can stay with directadmin or not, you can agree with my feedback or not, but this it is a bit immature from you.

As i can see (an many users too) directadmin is still stable and powerfull, but IS FALLING BEHIND

[Peter Laws]

As i can see (an many users too) directadmin is still stable and powerfull, but IS FALLING BEHIND
But.......it works! No crashing like Plesk, no uglyness like CPanel.......

If DA manages my customers sites without a hitch, they are happy and that makes me happy all around - the extra features that DA has/will have are an added bonus!

[cyberneticos]

It's pretty sad the no Directadmin staff gives us any response to our feedback.

Thanks guys. Thanks a lot.

[nieuwhier]

DA staff always responds quickly when you ask questions.

I guess closing this thread would be the best thing since no usefull information is posted anymore.

[cyberneticos]

No they don't :)

Directadmin needs to respond and then close this thread.

[rmwebs]

I;m bumping this back up...why? Because its an ongoing problem. Why have DA not officially responded?

Pretty poor that they are happy to sell us the product, but wont provide a simple feedback to a problem which clearly a lot of us want addressed. It would take seconds to respond, but instead they choose to keep us in the dark.

Very disappointing. I guess they don't care about the product or its community anymore.

[floyd]

Because its an ongoing problem.

What specific problem are you having?

[quadium]

I'm not really sure why the UI looks 'old'... I mean have you tried to use a Cpanel UI? *Shudders*

Plesk is meh. Nothing really beats DA in my opinion... looks great to me.

My biggest feature I would want that's missing is a Billing System. Not sure if it's even on the radar, but it'd sure make my life easier...

[gerrybakker]

Quadium,

just go get the billing system at WHMCS.com - the price is right, everything works as it should and the integration to DirectAdmin is wonderful. Writing a billing system is a really big job. I would rather have DirectAdmin continue their core focus of the control panel than get distracted with billing system design headaches. The WHMCS people have done it right - that is why so many people are flocking to it. I have used the other billing systems and lived a horrible billing nightmare until I stumbled upon WHMCS - life has never been better from a billing system point of view.

[Peter Laws]

My biggest feature I would want that's missing is a Billing System. Not sure if it's even on the radar, but it'd sure make my life easier...
There's billing software out there, thats why DA/etc has an API..... A control panel controls the web/mail/etc, not the billing...... I don't want to see DA become bloatware or become something its not.

Besides, we have our billing on a different server... What if the servers with DA goes down? People wouldn't be able to pay or submit help tickets.

[quadium]

There's billing software out there, thats why DA/etc has an API..... A control panel controls the web/mail/etc, not the billing...... I don't want to see DA become bloatware or become something its not.

Besides, we have our billing on a different server... What if the servers with DA goes down? People wouldn't be able to pay or submit help tickets.

Point taken. What do you use for billing then?

[Peter Laws]

Point taken. What do you use for billing then?
ClientExec, it has Zend and Ioncube versions. Reasonable priced.

My previous post was only my opinion, other people may want the idea of billing integrated in DA.

Just I can't see if some companies have, say, 100 servers with 500 clients per server, so thats 500 users for one server for billing, which is 50k altogether - it could be confusing who's on what server.

Note: The numbers are hypothetical.

[nobaloney]

Billing can be incredibly complex; I know I've worked on major accounting packages for Billing, accounting and manufacturing. Billing and related accounts receivable is generally the most complex.

And it really doesn't make sense to have it included with DirectAdmin unless you've only got one server or want lots of different billing programs.

My guess is it would double the cost of DirectAdmin. I'd rather have a choice of external billing packages.

I know of only one hosting control panel which includes billing; that's H-Sphere. Are there any others?

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

I agree with JLasman,

Billing is a whole different ball game. There are already some really , really good tools in the market to handle billing for hosting companies.

[cyberneticos]

I'm not really sure why the UI looks 'old'... I mean have you tried to use a Cpanel UI? *Shudders*

Becuase it is old.

Yes, I've seen just about every relevant hosting panel in the market, and they do update it every once in a while.

Directadmin looks old becuase it is old. The site looks old, becuase it is old. Just read at the content.

Even this forum makes me sick.

Now, if sacrificing these updates gives them the time they need to work on the important stuff, then that's ok. We understand.

But come on guys,. just update the site, skins and forum a little won't you?

;)

[Richard G]

Why. I've seen the "new" version of vBulletin. The 4.0 stuff. And even that layout looks old and I don't even like that layout. Which makes it look more like some other brand forum or like some default Wordpress layout.

Sure it's old, but it's effective and easy to use.
IMHO it's more important that DA is doing the changes they are making now (like putting pure-ftpd in DA) then having another forum skin.:)

[cyberneticos]

The point is that everything looks old, even the forum. And it looks old, becuase IT IS old, and nothing has been changed for ages.

Sure it's great that it works.

Old women also work in bed.

[nobaloney]

I saw a 1957 Chevy on the road the other day. It's old. And it looks old. I'd trade my new car for it any day.

But maybe that's because I'm old :). I was under 12 and a half years old when that Chevy was new.

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

Hehehe,

Well, most people would love to have an old classic car, but wouldn't pick up an old lady, nor an old looking control panel.

And most people shop for new cars, not old ones.

:)

[nobaloney]

And most people shop for new cars, not old ones.
Only because new ones generally are less troublesome. Old cars are simpler, and when parts are available, they're easier to maintain. Under the hood DirectAdmin is new. I'm not sure what you mean by looks old; if you hadn't seen it before it would look new.

For example, I used Plesk years ago; it looks different now, and I suppose since I hadn't seen it years ago, I'd agree it looks new. But I really don't like the new look. Or the new functionality.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, then. I like the enhanced DirectAdmin skin, and my clients do as well; except for the ones who still use the original skin.

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

Basically, the whole point of creating this thread (which I had no idea it was going to survive this long), was just a shoutout to Directadmin. Just to let them know that while they're working on keeping things tight, they are completely abandoning the looks and feels of things.

I, as a paying customer, would really appreciate a little bit of atention to how we look on the outside. It would make me feel more confortable as a Directadmin customer.

A little bit of response from Directadmin would also be great. I don't think that I'm asking for too much here.

[Richard G]

We now that -it is- old, band ofcourse you can start a thread with your idea's.
But new is not always better, I also said I don't like the modern look of vBulletin at all.

You are not askign for too much. But my guess is that DA also looks how others react to your idea. They won't change things because a couple of people would like to see a newer more modern design.
If a lot of people agree with you, then change will come in due time.

Indeed we have to wait for a response of Directadmin how they think about the idea.
But you also have to respect others opinions, who do like the old stuff, no mather what (including me).

[cyberneticos]

Not a bad idea :)

[cyberneticos]

Here it is : http://www.directadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38561

Jlasman, I would feel comfortable removing this thread now that we have the new poll in place.

The poll should reflect how everyone feels.

Cheers :)

[nobaloney]

I'm going to leave it and leave it open, because it certainly can cover, should cover, and maybe even does cover, other issues besides the latest skin look.

Jeff

[cyberneticos]

Sounds good. Glad it's serving a wider purpose. If only Directadmin would respond I would probably have a different opinion about them.

Principals of feedback, the theme of this sub-forum.

[tlchost]

Sounds good. Glad it's serving a wider purpose. If only Directadmin would respond I would probably have a different opinion about them.

Perhaps they have not responded since a large number of posts seem to indicate many folks are satisified with the current look and feel.

[cyberneticos]

Sorry, but that's not the general consensus.

Most people are chosing between "Making DA look better" and "Keeping directadmin updated and secure", and chosing the second. But that's not what was in question. I have been complaining about DA's completely outdated site and skins.

These complaints are the ones that have been completely ignored (in a way). I know they made an attempt to come out with a new skin, the good ole Darwin skin, which I personally spent a few hours giving my feedback and sending design suggestions.

This just completely blows. Getting burnt out trying to convince people of DA's big picture.

[tlchost]

Sorry, but that's not the general consensus.

I stand corrected:

Yes, the site and skins look old and need to look more modern 8 44.44%
No, I like the way things are. 1 5.56%
I don't care 9
50.00%

So, is it more accurate to say that 50 per cent of the responders really don't care?



I have been complaining about DA's completely outdated site and skins.

I wonder how many of your customers look at the DA site? Have you lost any because of the DA site's look and feel?


Getting burnt out trying to convince people of DA's big picture.

Who do you have to convince? Do you loose business because of DA's look?

If you do, it's in your best interest to make changes that benefit you.

Thom

[sloop]

The problem with this thread is that it is just a general vague bitch and moan thread.

As Thom pointed out, it would be more constructive to recommend specific features and explain how they would work and their advantages. These should be spelled out in 1 feature per thread, so that we can discuss specific points instead of arguing about what it is we are discussing.

As a side-note:

If you want to show your customers a newer skin, then you can work on building one!

If you want certain billing functions/features, that is outside of what a control panel should do. DA has a great API and customization system so you can integrate billing with it.

[cyberneticos]

@sloop: You call it bitching, but I call it feedback. Isn't this the feedback forum? In essense, I'm sharing how I feel about a certain situation.

@TLChost

The poll just started, it's not safe to say anything. Let's pretend that it ends up with those results anyways.

Let's say I was to go ahead and listen to my that 44% of my customer base, and just update my site. That would mean that 44% + 50% of my customer base would be happy. That's 94% of my customer base being happy. (In the event I threw someone off, 50% are still going to be happy if I update the site, becuase they expressed that they just didn't care if I did or not update my site).

Now what would happen if I said "Uhmm,. well more people don't care, then people that do". That would only yield to 56% of your customer base being happy.

Now imagine this poll was created by one of your customers on your site.

Would you update your site?

Imagine you're in a yearly meeting with your company's marketing team and you ask to vote on wether to update your company's site.

44% want to update it,
6% want to leave it as it is,
50% don't care.

What decision would you take?

[tlchost]

@TLChost

The poll just started, it's not safe to say anything. Let's pretend that it ends up with those results anyways.

Now imagine this poll was created by one of your customers on your site.

Would you update your site?



But you are not polling end users here...so the results of the poll here may have little or no meaning.

BTW, did I miss your answer about how much business/customers you've lost due to the out of date DA?

Oh yes....have you run a poll of your customers? Can you share the results with us?

Thom

[cyberneticos]

I don't think you're understanding half of what I have been explaning. This poll has nothing to do with end users.

[rjd22]

Hmm I think it would be nice if directadmin would make their default panel skin more modern. Like it or not most people still choose by looks not functionality. We are programmers / sysadmins. Complete other beings than normal users. So if you would make a accurate poll you will need to ask your users to make sure you make the right decision. Maybe your users actually like the old theme and you'll end up shooting in your own foot.

[nobaloney]

You can make any skin, custom or included, your default, on your server. Just change your packages.

Jeff

[neorder]

I heard that DA will have a new beautiful skin soon (tableless with AJAX etc.) :) (unofficial news)

We will have to wait for V2 for this?

[smtalk]

I worked for the company which owned the skin, however I got no salary and the company was almost bankrupt, so I got the skin instead of my salary and I started to sell licenses for it. You should ask DirectAdmin Support if they are planning to update their skin.

[neorder]

I worked for the company which owned the skin, however I got no salary and the company was almost bankrupt, so I got the skin instead of my salary and I started to sell licenses for it. You should ask DirectAdmin Support if they are planning to update their skin.

are you referring darwin skin? Is it possible to port existing DA language packs into it? If yes, that's a very nice skin indeed and I intend to purchase it.

Another option is, you could approach DA and ask them purchase it from you, I think they could offer you a good price...

Anyway, you wrote customapache, I thought you work for DA...I didn't know you worked for free...thx for your contribution to the community.

[smtalk]

are you referring darwin skin? Is it possible to port existing DA language packs into it? If yes, that's a very nice skin indeed and I intend to purchase it.

Another option is, you could approach DA and ask them purchase it from you, I think they could offer you a good price...

Anyway, you wrote customapache, I thought you work for DA...I didn't know you worked for free...thx for your contribution to the community.

Yes, you are right. It is possible to use DA language packs from enhanced skin, however, you need to translate the navigation menu additionaly. I do work for free, but DirectAdmin (John and Mark) donates me from time to time and they really helped me a lot when I lost my main job. I am a freelancer now. CustomBuild was the idea of both me and John :) We're glad we have it finished and we both add new features to it. The company which created the skin offered it to DirectAdmin and they got a negative answer, so there is no reason to offer it again :) We often discuss the new features with John, so if he would like it to be the main skin of DA he would have written to me.